OK, this topic sounds stupid, but I couldn't think of something different
Anyways, here's the idea behind it:
I think most of you know that linux (and most other UNI* systems) lack in MultiMedia-Power. I don't want to start a discussion (or flamewar) now, this is a fact. This fact also behold many users from using a system based on UNI*, in this case the most user-friendly linux.
So, this is a _huge_ community (for a programmers community). I discussd this a little with fabs and svara in the channel too, and though I'd better make a post so that everybody can give his/her opinion.
So, since we now "joined" (sort of) the FreeSoftware Foundation (from now on FSF) , and they give us such a great server with this great domain for free, I though that we maybe should return something to the FSF.
What I was thinking of was something like this:
As mentioned above, linux and almost all other UNI* based Systems lack in MultiMedia-Power, which is one huge argument for the nono-power-users to use Windows. These peoples (most) can shit on those Wizards that are everywhere in Windows. What most peoples want to have these days is the capability for handling MultiMedia content, whic Windows gives you (nooo, please don't start a discussion about this either, please, it's a fact).
So, this is my idea:
Maybe we should give the UNI* systems something powerfull for MultiMedia, like creating a Media Player like windows has it, or creating something that will help the UNI* systems to have more MultiMedia-power.
I hate it to say that Windows is superior, but this is the only thing I really think that windows is superior to Linux.... and it is _far_ superior, yes.
Any ideas are welcome, so just post any ideas you have. I think that not much is impossible with such a great and powerfull commuity. You see, we're not only a small meaningless community anymore. We're growing and growing, and our "power" also grows with that. I think we're quite big enough to get something _big_ done, that will be good for the users too. Let's just try it!!
[addsig]

KaGez has a point here, all windows distrobutions (i.e. the one and only) come with autodetection of sound/graphics etc. out of the box. Now this usually doesn't work perfect, and sometimes not at all, but still it's easier to just view a movie or something in Windows, even though the 20 "How to connect your media player to MSN" wizards that show up might get on your nerves after a while.

Oh, well, to the point: what could _we_ do about it?

What we oculd do about it? nothing.
What we can do?
easy:
create some central multimedia stuff for linux. Now everything is splitted into 1000s of programs. In windows for example you have the Media Player, whic does most for you. In linux you have XMMS for music stuff (mostly), MPlayer, Xine, and most probably lots of other things. Why should we use 1000s of applications in linux if windows can do this with one single application?
Tha was something I wanted to point out Maybe we could make a program that implements all of the above (playing music, cd-audio, and so on) by just putting existing things together, or coding them from scratch. I think this is fairly challenging, and also fun to code. I'm not sure if all of you are with me too, but I think this is one reason why Linux isn't getting on the (non-geek) user's PC.
[addsig]

imo the many programs all doing their own distinct job is a good thing(tm)

svara is right there, but maybe those program could be assembler together to one "kit" or something, to avoid total chaos

I agree with fsvara. Not the apps are the problem but the hardware configuration. This was the first thing that should be approached by the developer group. [addsig]

In fact, writing a lot of small programs each responsible for one particular task and doing that task good, then connecting these programs to get to the desired goal, that's the Unix philosophie.
That's also why you havr pipes and redirection on unix-shells in the first place.
Anyway, yes, having a player to actually combine all these little programs would be nice but it's not really the problem here imho.
The problem is that too many multimedia-formats are proprietary and it is not 100% sure how they work. This requires reverse-engineering and even IF this succeeds, the format will still be proprietary and by writing programs which use proprietary formats, we're kind of encouraging the use of these. On the other hand, if we managed to write a real-aduio-encoder, real.com would be spit in the face and they could start packing their proprietary bags
fabs

ok, real player sux!
anyways, I think combining all these little apps together into one big one that can handle all these formats would just be great. I dunno how it is with you, but I am certainly sick of havin to run XMMS for my audio stuff, MPlayer for videos and so on.
We could add some feuatures like a little news-reader (not for Usenet, no ), a function that fetches you the album name and cover pic for the song you are listening to and such stuff.
and, as rob_ert says, my computer is also ending up in a chaos lately, a chaos of MM apps for linux... I don't like that too much...
[addsig]

I run Windows (Duh), I dont know about the hardware detection, but there are quite a few really good/fast media players for windows, that are much better than the Windows Media Player, these are free programs, stuff thats worked on in ppls spare time, I think a lot of this stuff would be done in C/C++ style too, to save you findin all these DivX,Smr,Angel,Mpg,Avi, etc formats, these ppl might give you source code and you could port it, Just though this might save you a lot of time.

sacah: That might proove to be a good idea.

Hmm...I really like it more to have one app for one task. Like a movie player for playing movies, a mp3 player for...I guess you got my point. When we want to write a one-for-all app we should make it with some sort of modules so that the user can decide for himself which features he needs and which not.

Maybe we should just write some kind of launcher app? I mean sort of a file browser which looks up the files format to start the right app to play it. All those other nifty features like KaGez' cover download and stuff could be integrated into it but we won't have to do all the media playing stuff again (which other ppl spend enough time on to get it running greatly). We could pack all those playing apps and codecs and stuff together into one release bundle and write a tool that allows for easy updating and getting the newest codecs and stuff.

Just an idea. [addsig]

btw, xmms supports plugins, and already has quite a lot of plugins for video formats. it can play mpg, avi, and some other

plugins for XMMS isn't really what I wanted to do...
[addsig]

But svara has a good point. There already are a lot of good and versatile applications for multimedia stuff out there. In fact I don't think that this is Linux' major prob. [addsig]

ok, you guys always say that you shouldn't stop to code something even if it is there already? what is the matter now?! do you think that you can't make it or what? I think that it is no reason to not code something because it already exists.
[addsig]

You know that I agree with that, but I thought your intention was to get Linux forward with this. So we should perhaps try to find what it really lacks and do that. [addsig]

ah,ok, sorry, got you wrong then
ok, but where should we start then? I doubt it that we can change the way of how hardware is accessed in linux. We could tho, write some useful APIs. That shouldn't be too hard
maybe you could tell me what you are imaginating.
[addsig]

What Linux really needs is a new Windowing system to replace X-Windows, modelled after the Mac or WIndows' GUI. Some compatibility with standard APIs like DirectX will be good.

Wine is just an API inturpriter, mabye add more APIs to it, that would be a very usefull thing.

What is the problem with XWindows? Always working perfectly for me. I don't know what it lacks and I neither do I know what makes the Windows GUI better.

And as far as I know there are already some window systems in development out there which aim to replace X.

Once /me an rob_ert started a project to build a windowing system upon SVGAlib...more for fun than for any purpose - we did not go far and I think of the code as a hell of a mess

The whole ypn community could work on a repalcement for X and we would probably work for years... [addsig]

you wanna know what isn't good about X?
I think there are several aspects that make X not what it could be. The first one is the license... I think I don't have to tell more about this
The 2nd thing I don't really like is that it uses this network protocol to communicate with the server, even if you run it locally you have a server and a client. I think this is prettly useless, since not many peoples use X over a network or something at all.
The API isn't bad imho. OK, it's a little complicated, but easier than winAPI, but with about the same power if you ask me.
Maybe we should look at "Berlin" a bit. It seems to be very promissing
[addsig]

Do these new environments support the same API like X or is there at least something to compile gtk apps and stuff for them? [addsig]

imo the x license is no problem. it's not the gpl, but so what? it's a free license anyway, it's just a bit less restrictive (more bsd-alike).

imo the x license is no problem. it's not the gpl, but so what? it's a free license anyway, it's just a bit less restrictive (more bsd-alike).

i don't see a problem with x either.. except it's pretty stupid to configure sometimes.

I think that that client-server system can get a small bottleneck if you run stuff locally.
[addsig]

So...What do you want to do? [addsig]

yeah, let's get it back to the actual topic
so, what do you guys think we could do for linux in the multimedia appartment?
[addsig]

Make an All-in-One app, but make it skinable, run fast, not much mem/cpu consumption etc, Vid/Audio - nice little eq etc.

I doubt thats for linux, you would need to get like 2000 dif programs.

i don't think a new app is really needed. most of the multimedia apps that already exist offer some interface for plugins. xmms, noatun, etc. all do. if there's something those apps would need, consider making a plugin for it before you write a whole new app from scratch...

Maybe Linux is not really lacking the 'normal' multimedia stuff. One thing I'd really would like to have is a driver for the Video out of my GeForce2MX [addsig]

I think Nvidia give us a great driver for that.
but maybe we could try to get some high performance drivers would be quite tough tho.
[addsig]

mox: what problems have you been running into with your geforce? i'm using nvidia's driver with my gf2mx, and it works like a charm (well, except that it crashes after about a month of running non-stop...)

I don't have a problem with my nVidia driver. As you said, it works perfectly and nVidia for me is the best example of a company giving Linux support for their hardware.

I just don't know how to set up the TV out stuff. But I didn't really try... [addsig]

I bet there are quite many documents about that in the net
[addsig]

I think so too. It's just that I never searched for it. Guess I don't want it that much... [addsig]

hehe, I'm kinda happy with those cool drivers they give us, really
[addsig]

Yeah, as I said above, if all hardware companies would support Linux like nVIdia does, well, maybe there would be a lot more Linux users out there! [addsig]

what model is that geforce exactly? i have a gf2mx, and it doesn't have any TV stuff...

afaik there are GF2s (GTS?) with TV outs, I think there also was a GF2MX from Elsa (which went bankrupt in the beginning of this year ) with a TV out.
[addsig]

My nVIDIA card was called 3D Prophet. Can'T remember the vendor cause I threw it's package away some weeks ago... [addsig]

"Hercules"?

yeah, those thingies are by "Hercules", one of the oldest vid card makers I also thought buying that one, but my budget was kinda tight so I chose elsa
[addsig]

Yeah, it was Hercules.

I'm actually excited how good the hardware support for Linux is today. Recently I had to find a driver for my usb webcam. Took me some time to figure out how it worked, but it worked at once. Last time I tried (a long time ago) USB support of Linux was a crap... [addsig]

USB in linux starts to rock I just dunno how to get my CD-RW running :/
[addsig]

Is it an external USB CD-RW? [addsig]

if it's internal, you just have to setup SCSI emulation for it (as linux doens't support IDE cd writers)... that's like all you need to do.

Yeah, you usually simply have to add one line to your lilo conf, get scsi and most important scsi emulation support into your kernel and you'Re ready to go. [addsig]

when you're compiling the scsi emu as a module, just add the following to your modules.conf:

options ide-cd ignore=hdc # tell the ide-cd module to ignore hdc
alias scd0 sr_mod # load sr_mod upon access of scd0
pre-install sg modprobe ide-scsi # load ide-scsi before sg
pre-install sr_mod modprobe ide-scsi # load ide-scsi before sr_mod
pre-install ide-scsi modprobe ide-cd # load ide-cd before ide-scsi


that is, if your cd writer is hdc as ide...

it's external. Thx for the many infos I'll try it some day. never tried it really up to now
thx
[addsig]