There's been lots of talking about setting up a number of 'teams' in the YPN, to take care of beginners (more important in e.g. assembly section than VB section, where most people aren't exactly beginners), but also to collect resources and maybe write an article or two on a higher level.

In most areas, there are a few really good tutorial/references/web pages, with lots of "getting started" information. The teams should find a few of those for the beginners out there, maybe even in some special "section" within the main YPN section (e.g. C/C++ section).

You can't learn and understand everything from tutorials, no matter how good they are. There are always things you want to ask or need advice about. Here IRC is the solution. The last week, I've been having "private lessons" with a guy about OS programming. He's intelligent, and is ready to put a lot of effort in what he's doing, unlike some people who try to do something that's way too hard for them, and annoy others with their questions.

I'm using BozOS (and a bit DS-OS) code as reference, he's trying to code as much as he can himself, but when he gets any problem he asks me, and I try to help him. We usually privmsg 8 hours/day this way (like a normal schoolday, hehe), and it seems like it's a great way to learn, if you see it as a complement to tutorials.

I'm not so sure this will work very well in a more organized form, but if anyone has any suggestion, this might be a good place to post.

(I'm bored, don't flame me for this)

ok, I'm not bored. I go to school @ 7am in the morning, and come home @ about 3 or 4 pm, and then I want to code, and not talk another 8 hours to somebody who wants to learn from me. OK, maybe 1 hour or 2 should be ok, but not 8 hours everyday, no. I think as a programmer you also need the ability to think about what you want to code, and not ask others for a solution. I've done it like that mostly, and I've learned most of what I can do now like that. It is good to share knowledge with other, I agree. But if you help somebody with almost everything he code, then he/she won't learn much from that.
Don't get me wrong, I also hate it to refuse to help others, just so you don't get me wrong I love to help others, but not tell them everything. If you tell somebody everything he/she asks for, he/she won't learn it very godd. He/she will ask you certain things over and over, even if you've told him/her before. And that's exactly what I think that shouldn't happen. They get dependent on you, and can't think for theirselves. It's only what I htink, and not everybody has to agree with this....
[addsig]

The point is, I ignore idiots who don't think at all theirselves. And we of course don't chat like in a real conversation 8 hrs/day, but more "in the background", whenever he has some question. Imagine yourself as an assembly programmer - wouldn't you ask someone about the things you don't understand, and your tutorial/book does not explain good enough?

kagez :
dont get me wrong, but is your life : school 7am-4pm and the coding from 4pm to bedtime?

IbydI: ofcourse it's not only that. I also have to care about my GF, and also eat and shower. But basically, yes, that's my life, except that I spare a _lot_ of time for my GF. Something wrong with that?

robert: ofcourse, that's what I've also said above. If he/she only asks you about something that isn't written in his/her tut or book that's ok. But I know certain ppls that ask _everything_ (even if it's the first entry in google) all the time and just don't shut up .... you know what I mean? But helping ppls sometimes is ok for me, that's why I hang around in the #gimp, #gnome and #php channel.
[addsig]

youve got a girl =--> youre not a nerd =--> nothing wrong.
its just that i have so much other things in life *school *i go out everyday *gf *i work almost every day *i burn cd-s for money *play in a band...
and my day is so full that i find it hard to code most of the time, since im usually tired, amotivated, have no ideas.
so sometimes i really wish i could just isolate and be with a girl and a computer.
but then again if that happens i will probably wish some other things...

/me throws an egg at IbydI for not being a geek

/me sends a magical fairy to un-geek rob_ert.

/me gets tranformed, goes out on the street, picks a girlfriend, and gets tons of friends to drink with.

Well, I think that sounds like a cool idea. Maybe we could make this part of the sections thing. A beginner comes up, and asks for a .. we'll make up a term later somebody to have little sessions to talk with/ask questions to about the section in question, on IRC.

I don't think many of us have *that* much free time, and my mom is worried about my eyes sitting in front of a computer screen for prolonged periods of time, but I could probably get 2/3 hours/day (not at once :-/)

Comments?

heh... I'm sitting almost the whole day in front of my PC since about 5 years, and nothing changed to my eyes :/
they only got better seriously!
[addsig]

my eyes are always red,
but thats cause of eyedrops i used.
and from 3 days ago i sit in front of a tft,
mmmm i like tft.

lucky you. how to get a GF? you should submit some tuts about that .

--> how to get a GF?

That's why we have mail-order brides

well to get a gf, you have to have girl frends(dont mix those two) that can lead you to girlfrends.
you also have to go out with those frends often.
and another thing ==--> the girl frend has to be a bit ugly [mostly ugly girls have good looking frends] so she will enjoy herself while setting you up with a girl just in order to forget that she can get a boyfrend,

now this usually works for me.

the girl frend has to be a bit ugly [mostly ugly girls have good looking frends] so she will enjoy herself while setting you up with a girl just in order to forget that she can get a boyfrendHuh?

[ This Message was edited by: Govtcheez on 2002-02-11 20:46 ]

What do girlfriends have to do with programming?

govtcheez:
girls that are ugly *or fat,,,* and cant find boyfrends are usually willy to find you a girlfrend since doing that helps them overcome their own misery.
dxprog:
girlfrend makes you happy =-->
your programms are happy

hmm...

Somebody finding me a Girlfriend?

Bullshit!(what kind of lollopop will be made of this?)

The real cool guys are approached by girls without that much effort...They just keep coming...

Haha.. that's funny. I think I'm quite cool but I've never been approached by girls like you put it. You have to do something about it yourself too, it doesn't fall out of the sky.

all you have to do is find a girl you like, and a frend that will set her up with you.
thats how it almost always works round here.
[which is imho much better than All American Friday Nigh Date Aproach] [addsig]

Just keep them coming, that's what I say

But coming back to the original topic:

When I started the whole coding stuff I was very glad whenever I found someone willing to help me the way rob_ert described. I know how much manpages and tutorials lollipop if you can't get the answer to the one question you really, really want to have answered.

I'm willing to help newbies whereever I can, but I also agree to KaGez. Those nubys should not get on my nerves

But most question don't steal you too much time, do they?

hey, who sais that you need friends to get a GF? In my case it was right the opposite. Both (my GF and me) had almost no friends (before we got GF and BF ). So, that was the biggest point in our relation ship. She was my only friend, and I was her only friend. So those lil' cupies came around and shot around with thos arrows like hell, and that's it. After 3 months being a friend of her, we finaly made it to our goal
soo, you don't need firends to get a GF
[addsig]

I'll back out thank you very much. [addsig]

Working hard to get a girlfriend (just pick first one you can get) seems morally wrong to me.

--> Working hard to get a girlfriend (just pick first one you can get) seems morally wrong to me

Why? Seems like just settling for the first thing that came by would be worse (he said, as the topic drifted away from anything related to YPN)

lmao@robert *G*

i quote
"Lack of Sex can cause serious Brain Damage"

I also think that trying to get the same girl all the ways is not too good... you should love several girls (plz not at the same time ).... just what I think tho ...
[addsig]

bout girls. can girls program?

well i do know that there is no big dif between boys' and girls' brains. but i have never seen a G that knows programing. is that cuz they dont like it or they cant understand that.

my bro once told me "you know programing you're a programer". i said: whats about that its hel easy". he said "wait and see how girls do programing in lessons".

so i wonder can they do it?

What "they"? "Girls" is quite a big generalization. There aren't many geeky girls, that's true, but that's more a question of interest.

So it's quite strange to say "can they do it?"... I would like to mention Sachac, the female guru of the YPN.. too bad she doesn't show up more often.

I don't know any programming girls personally either, but for instance, I have a classamte who's a killer at maths and I'm sure that she could do well in programming too, if she had that interest.

--> I would like to mention Sachac, the female guru of the YPN.. too bad she doesn't show up more often.

Yeah - her poem was great

--> is that cuz they dont like it or they cant understand that.

It's sorta the first part, and not at all the second part. I know quite a few girls in my CE/CS classes... However, they don't seem as attracted, by and large, to tech fields as readily as guys. I've often wondered if some girls are put in a room with a computer when they're young and electrocuted when they go near it...

well i study in scool where only math bookworms are alowed. there is one girl that is as good in math as i am (im the best in that school ). but when i tired to teach her programing she understood a shit.

--> but when i tired to teach her programing she understood a shit.

Well, you can't assume that just cuz she's good at math, she's gonna give a rat's ass about computers...

Hey guys, we could have played with barbies, too...

yeah, it's strange.. i wonder how the brains/genome of people like sachac differ from the "average" girl (cause there's no denying girls are less interested in tech stuff generally...)

Think i'm gonna study biochemistry and reserach that *G*

i tryed also to teach a girl from mine class programmin (and she is the state champion if physics, also very good in maths) but she couldnt learn even basics.
its all about interest, and the way how they builded when you were a kid. mmmm psychology i like it. [addsig]

There are a few possible explanations:

* Girls could have mutated brains, that prevent them from coding. Anyone can tell this theory is stupid.

* Girls have a special part of the brain, that makes them puke everytime they see code. This theory is not accepted among most scientists.

* Girls are raised not to code. This is obvious.

This is to hundred percent a social thing. Girls are rasied to be ... girls. There's an image deep inside people's heads what a girl is, what she should do and not do, how she should look. My sister was made fun of when she looked like a boy. This doesn't really make her more keen on doing "boy's stuff", like coding.

We have a problem in our culture, and until we get rid of it - no female coders.

Is there a problem with no girl coders? Not htat I am against them mind you, but I always thought of that as a guy thing anyway.

Is there a problem with no girl coders? Not that I am against girls mind you, but I always thought of coding as a guy thing anyway. [addsig]

I would like to have male-only coders rather than girls behaving like boys.
What comes next?
Will we wear make-up in some years?

robert: I am pretty sure it is not a matter of how children are raised.
if that were the case, the ratio of "technically interested boys" to girls would be a lot lower - and there would be more cultural differences in that matter.

It would be pretty easy to verify tho.. just observe the behaviour of apes.. the females guard the children while the males use simple tools for hunting for food.
It's the same for boys playing tanks and tin soldiers.. (i didn't heh...)
Boys just are more interested in battles, and that's genetical...

a great psychologist once said:
"give me children when theyre babies, and ill rise them to be whatever you like. criminals, scientist, artists...."
svara you're right. but note : in modern psychology it is proved that two things are important in building the person character : 1.genome 2.social life they have(especially between 2-7) years of age.

and i would like to (but its against any human rights so it wont be possible) do much interesting programming than programming a computer : programing human mind.

MoX: No, but maybe girls will stop doing it? At least that's what I hope.

svara: Yes, and back then men raped whenever they got horny. We don't do that now anymore. Mankind CAN change.

I taught a girl the basics of C once, she understood it. Think of when you were younger, didn't you like to build stuff? I always did, I guess programming is like building stuff. I don't know many girls that built stuff with legos and linkinlogs.

I don't claim to be an expert..but I think that robost is right, mostly. When people are little, boys are given toy trucks, girls are given barbie dolls. Eventually they get into school, or some other social group, and if girls do technical things, the cool people are gonna keep their distance, or maybe even flat out tell them "Girls don't program!" Same with guys, if a guy starts designing clothes, other guys aren't going to stay away, or just tell them "Designing clothes is for women!" And there are lots of proffesional male designers, and female computer-oriented people, so obviously they can do it, just most people don't, because they aren't "supposed to."

That said, I'm no expert, and it's obviously more complicated than that.

I think I might actually do it, and get out of breath due to typing.

this topic should be named thoughts about girls [addsig]