I was wondering :
If this is a YPN network, why dont we join forces then, and make something really usefull???

Hm, what do you mean? We're making something very useful by having a community, and there are projects coming up...

.im talking 'bout projects.
.people should work together
(but on a large programm)

What do you want? YPNOS?

Yeah, as I said, the projects are coming up . I'm developing the projects section right now and then you can create your projects there and have others join. =)

1.) I have got a project (a big one, yes, check out http://kagpro.sf.net). robert got one too. fabs also. Most of us have a big project, even if working alone or with a small amout of ppls.
Why should we now start worrying about "What should I code together with the others" ? I love to code OpenGL stuff, Peter seems to like PHP, robert likes asm, and fabs is into ANSI C. I think it'd be hard to make one big project our of these, or not?
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BozOS in its original form was a kind of 'YPN project'. Now I'm working on BozOS II and another OS (Primula). The problem is that not many people from YPN can help me with that.

Here are some problems with big 'YPN projects':
* Who should do what?
* Who can code [programming language]?
* High or low-level language?
* If one is skilled enough to make it himself, why should he let people that barley can code into the project?

Only a few kinds of projects are possible to write, for example games, where some people could code on the game itself, some could do graphics etc.

Another problem is that some of the YPN (fortunantley not many the good coders ) use Windows.

So, I think a YPN project with more than maybe 2 or 3 members involved doesn't have much of chance, I think.

________________________________________
____Looks like you dont understand me___
________________________________________

There are many good coders here, but everyone has its own way of coding.
What I mean is that in next few years many of us are going to have to get a job. And what then???
___Then You must work in teams.
And it doesnt matter how good programmer you are, only thing that matters is that you have to be a prat of that team, that you need to know how to work with other people, share ideas...

And I'm afraid that i'll have problems one day, just because i never worked in a team.

So all im trying to say is that we should connect and work together in order to be prepared for the real life programming.

so, then it's not necessary for me, because I have my project, and it will (hopefuly) get bigger, and more coders will come together. And, I'm also now working in a "team" with sacah, our coding style is very different, but we have no problems to get along (at least I don't have any). robert also has got his project(s), which also has a development _team_, so he also knows how to work in a team. The only thing you really have to do when you work in a team is to communicate, talk about who does exactly what, maybe set some variable names that the functions in your code and the other ppls code use, and voila. That's all. I did it like this all the times, it worked. What do you really want? I can't understand what's so difficult to work in a team. You just need a good communication in the team, as mentioned above. And that's what we've got IRC for
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It's all 'bout design (not coding - with good design coding is the easyest part).

Hehe, yeah. But you should see the design of some people...

What about 'designing an OS', only by saying it should be extremley modular, easy to use, and support Linux, Windows and DOS program? Some people are that stupid, yes

you're tallking about Hang3r?

--> And it doesnt matter how good programmer you are, only thing that matters is that you have to be a prat of that team, that you need to know how to work with other people, share ideas...

Not necessarily. Some of us already have jobs coding, and can attest that not all work is done in teams. I've been working on a project by myself for a good 7 months now.

Teamwork is indeed very important. The key is, as KaGez remarked, communication.

I have quite much to do right now, but I'm open to suggestions about projects, I'm eager to work in teams. I have some experience with it too, partly from creating the YPN itself, and partly from teamwork that I've had IRL.

If the team members can communicate well enough, the project is only limited by their time and skills. However if there are more than 3 people involved, there's often a need for somebody to coordinate the job. This project leader would make sure there is a plan to work after (one that is developed by all team members together). The team could switch project leader after certain intervals...

just some thoughts

I think that switching the project leader isn't too good. The 1st project leader just got used to it (starts to be able to handle it), and then you switch em, and then the 2nd one must have to experiment around again, and the whole team also has to get used to the behaviour etc. of the new leader. I think that that is very time consuming. Maybe the whole team should come together for one night, best is NetMeeting (yes, it's M$, but it's really the best in this case ), talk about the ideas, make up a framework for the project. There are some useful things in NetMeeting, such as the WhiteBoard, which I've never seen anywhere in Linux before, sad but true
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.first letter of support.
great
.hope more to come.

How's GnomeMeeting?

Well I suggested switching leader because it's good to avoid one person getting too much control of how the project will evolve, the leader should usually only supervise. Of course, switching leaders isn't as good with major projects.

.i kind of think that "Project Supervisor" suits better than "Project Leader"

Yeah, that's what I meant. That is, if it's about normal teamwork and not a couple of guys helping someone out with his/her project...

It's important that there isn't one person doing most of the work when it comes to real teamwork. That's why planning and assignments are important, and that usually requires a project supervisor.

Nobody should feel that it's "his"/"her" project, so if somebody wants to create something from an idea that is a personal artifact, then he/she shouldn't make it a public project.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter on 2002-01-12 20:55 ]

not one should do the most work. I think everybody should work the same amount, or more if you have fun with it and can't resist.
GnomeMeeting doesn't have that neat little WhiteBoard afaik would be a good feature to add tho
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project leader: linus torvalds is the one and only leader of Linux, and everybody accepts him, even though he is evil and tyrannic!

you just have to get used to it
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Evil and tyrannic? Haven't heard that one before... Well at least he knows a lot about penguins.

Hehehe... He isn't really evil and tyrannic, he just tends to impose his ideas about how to do things (which are usually the right things to do )...

you just have to have a proper idea with a good reason, and then most ppls will accept it, if they think it's good or not is a different Q tho That's what developers are discussing about
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--> i have bit bigger plans in life than sitting alone in front of a computer , and doing a programming jobs.

Good for you! I didn't realize professional troll was a valid job option...

Govt...
if you dont share somebody's oppinion then just dont share it

--> if you dont share somebody's oppinion then just dont share it

Well... that would normally be the case, but if someone chooses to put down my chosen profession because he has "bigger plans", and expects me to keep my mouth shut - he's got another thing coming.

ture :/
but I also dunno what's so bad to sit infront of your PC alone :/ Even if you work in a team, you will code your stuff alone, and probably nobody will help you.
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yep! forget the damn thing called "social life" they're all talking about and fsckkin START CODING!

I think somebody had some cool quit message .... I think it was vonlia ....
"Weha is this damned thing called "real life", and where the hell can I download it?!?"
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HAAHAHAHAHAHA

govt...
sorry if i put down your proffesion.
if youre not interested in working with somebody ok.
why are you on this forum then?

IbYdI: This community is for learning programming (afaik), and not for learning how to work in a team. that is optional So pleasy stop agrueing about this. I don't wanna attack you, I just ask you to stop argueing
I think learning to develop in teams is a decision everybody should make him/herself. There are programmer jobs out there that don't even need a sence of teamspirit, and on the other hand there are ones that need a high potentiol of it. So, it's up to what you want to do in the future. If govt thinks that he won't need it in the future ,that should be ok. I personaly am able to work in both manners, with a team and without. I just "learned" to work in a team because I though that it is fun to have a team you can fool around with, because when you're really down you can sometimes realy need somebody who can help you out And for me that's the other ppls in a team often. I also like to discuss things in a team, blahblahblah I think nobody wants to hear more about what I like, and what not, so I'll stop here

Anyways, I think it's really up to everybody if he/she wants to work in a team or not!
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OK - a couple things.

1st - I almost always respond poorly to people who talk negatively to me while unregistered - if I had known it was you, I probably wouldn't have reacted that way.

2nd - I never said teamwork wasn't needed - it's just not absolutely required like everyone seems to think it is. I can work in a team just as well as anyone, but my current job doesn't have me working in a team. Hell, my boss has even told me on a few occasions that he's glad I'm able to function well by myself. Knowing how to work in a team is one thing, actually knowing what you're doing in the team is another.

ok, i think we misunderstood each other.

I think so, too... Case closed, then

-->-->Another problem is that some of the YPN (fortunantley not many the good coders ) use Windows.! I resent that remark


Heh...And anyhow, everyone loves cheez so I see no problem... [addsig]

-KEN-:
"not _many_ of the good coders"
But it's true, many ppls I know that program on windows can't program that good... ok, they can do stuff like i/o, but if it gets to memory allocationg stuff, or even memleaks most of them just either don't recorgnize it, or just leave it in the code :/
Probably they just don't know how a PC works good enough just a guess.

This isn't dedicated to anybody in personal, it's just what I've experienced
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