Hehe, ONE single reply in this forum. I guess assembler isn't as popular (suitable for kids) as HTML and BASIC .

Well, it's exactly like out there in the industry. Sadly, there are almost no asm-programmers left but languages like BASIC, javascript, html are getting very popular. Also people start calling flash a programming language
Well, c was, is and will always be a useful tool for just about anything. OOP is getting more important though and with the importance of this technique, c++ and java move into light
fabs

Yes, BASIC, Flash etc. is becoming more and more popular, while assemblers' populatiry is low =(.

Guess why? Millions of 14-year old "programmers" are using BASIC, HTML and Flash because they don't understand how a PC works (and because of that can't use Asm).

C/C++ is good... You can't get much more low-level without giving up platform independency. OOP is also something good, especially for big systems and programs for Win/XFree86 etc.

yes, true. flash is definitely not a programming language. doing flash is not programming. it's like using the "Magic Cinema for Kids" just a little more advanced. [addsig]

hehe, or click&play
fabs

yeah.. but assembly is actually one of the coolest languages one can learn
but you can indeed do alot with HTML (especially if you're script kiddy: ever try
to DoS with the img-tag? think of sources like file:///dev/zero :) a bit off topic ...
you find lots of higher language papers and tutorials on the web but not for asm.

Bandi [addsig]

heh, that last person was me...I can never get the hang of logging in

OK, I need to have a word here.
VB file access is slow. Okay, it IS. But first, you can use Windows kernel functions (hint: what do most of the C compilers do?) and second, it's both easier and clearer to understand. You don't have to pass file length and a void pointer to act as a buffer to read variables from files.
OK, I like BASIC more then any other languge. So what?
Anyways...why there aren't as many ASM programmers over the world? I think the answer would relate with "why do people use Windows and not DOS (not that MS wants us to ) instead", "why do people ride cars and not walk instead" and such.
It's a rule. ASM is hard. Can you deny it? I don't think so. ASM is like magic, you do some simple operations in a difficult way. Other languages are different, you do more difficult operations in a simpler way.
It's logic.
-People prefer ease.
-In ASM, operations are easy. (set variable, add variables, etc.)
-In others, operations are complex but how to use to acquire something them is easy.
-Operations are defined for you, that leaves only the second fact (using functions in an effecient way) to be determinant.
-Other p-l's are easier then ASM
-People prefer Other p-l's

That's all .

yeah, so HLL's are easy. I tihnk we all knew that. The challenge and knowledge that come with ASM programming is what makes it fun

Once you get a hang of the language (which doesn't take as long as you'd think) all you have to do is study the machine you're working on, and it's all good. [addsig]

Ok. We all know that Basic is popular because of it's easy. I uderstood how it works (the idea of how to program apps) in ... 3 hours. I was amazed of its simplicity. I was able to write text editor with syntax highlighting for my language in 20 minutes. Could we do that in asm? Nop.

I tired to learn C. I undertood its syntax in 2 weeks (see the diference). C is harder then basic.

What can we use else to do aps? Pascal. Its good for learning. And its _very_ easy.

You talked about web programing. HTML. It is not programing language by the way. It is markup(don't know spelling) language. Plus flash is not click&play. It has very advanced scripting language. You could even try to do fake os in it(j/k).

IMHO programing by its hard goes this way:
1.Pacal (easiest for learning)
2.Basic (bit more advanced)
3.C/C++
4.ASM

Ou. I forgot. I'm trying to learn asm. I read 20 pages of pcasm-book (by Dr.Paul Carter.) and 2 charpters of AoA. I still have no idea how to make hello world app.

It would be against laws of nature if harder languages would be more popular.


aurimas

Quote:Nobody says you have to know how a PC works, you can sit there writing slow BASIC programs all your life if you wish

Can you describe in which vital ways BASIC is slow? I have been hearing this sentence quite frequently lately. I wonder if people really know what kind of "slownesses" BASIC has.

when i did QBASIC, what really pissed me off was the compiler - it was _horrible_. Compiled programs actually run slower than interpreted... it's a shame.
If somebody actually made an free QBASIC-like thing with a good compiler, perhaps more people would use it.. it's a lot of fun programming qbasic, because it's so wasy you seldom have to think...

Maltanar: BASIC isn't slow for smaller, common functionality, but have you ever seen a fast 3d engine in BASIC? As fast as an ASM/C engine? It's about bigger, more advanced programs.

I don't think that the comparsion to "driving cars instead of walking" is appropriate here.Yes, ASM is really hardcore, but those ultra high level languages are not necessarily better than the lower level languages. Newer languages aren't always better than the old ones.

ASM and normal C is not really in business anymore, period. I know this and for a while I was sad about it because I still think that it's more fun when you can control the computer directly.

that's just imho... and I program primarily for fun, so I'm learning C and ASM ..

fsvara- well, that's one . Actually, compiled BASIC programs (considering most compilers) are only instructions with the necessary intrepreter embedded. The intrepreter always slows the current process, i.e. in graphics, it decreases the operation speed dramatically (-%30).
VB has much lesser problems with the intrepreter part, because DLLs are used for external references, and there's no doubt that DLLs do it quicker, in addition with decreasing the executable size.
The second thing BASIC is slow in is heavy computations. VB also does this much faster then standard QBASIC/GBASIC types, since DLLs do the dirty work . However, there's always a workaround for this. For example, I have a program that reads 4 byte blocks from a file and lists how many times each value is used (it's a part of the compression routine). It's a very easy operation, but imagine doing it in a 200MB archive (I do have one) -pfaughh. My "perfectly optimized" routines in VB were like tortoises. I found a simple solution. Wrote a DLL in Mingw C++. Whoosh, problems solved.
Peter - yes, as I mentiones above, graphics are another thing BASIC is weak on. But think of it, how many people build 3D engines around the world? (of course, no offense to any who do) .

its 0000 0001 1010 0100...

..."Since the core has no actual end, the Imp, after filling the whole core, reaches its starting position again and keeps on running happily in circles ad infinitum."


http://dmoz.org/Games/Video_Games/Genres/Simulation/Programming_Games/CoreWar/

=)-~
any warriors?

corebitz@hotmail.com
www.core-nrg.net/
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in reality" anon

The higher level a language is at, the more unneccesary code is generated. Therefore, C, BASIC, Pascal and all high-level languages are alot slower, because a compiler is not nearly as intelligent as a good programmer.

That means, all BASIC programs are slower than a (good) assembly program. This appears to all other high level languages too.

What many people don't think about, is that many of the CPU power consuming code pieces often are written in assembler!

If you would write a memcpy() implementation in C, programs using that function would get a lot slower. Instead, the most used parts of a program is written in a low-level language.

Then the programmer can use a high-level language for the rest of the program. Without it affecting speed more than a few percent, while a slow loop (written in a high-level language, or of course using a bad algorithm) in a game could slow down the game with several hundred percent.

well assembly doesnt seem to be popular because it isnt simple [addsig]

Idiots like you can't use it, no...

"people are scared of assembler because they dont understand how computer works."
true, true [addsig]

hehe, I'm interested in asm, but I just don't have time to learn it atm, and I still have no real need to learn asm atm... but yes, it sounds like it's very powerful as of what I've heard ...
[addsig]

the (very very) little assembler i did when i was at fabs' was a lot of fun

i liked it just because it was so low level, so you build everything in little steps and there are sometimes tricky and itneresting ways to do stuff...

flash is not a programming language but it got it own language called actionscript...
i think

I was of the last message

I say HTML, Flash etc are programming languages, But ASM is just like ownin a Dodge Viper GTS, C/C++ lollipop big time, Delphi is cool, and VB rocks, plus all ur scriptin is cool.

Quote:
AND... Why don't we program in the language 'B' ??


http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/doc/misc/lang-list.txt

Quote:
1. Thompson, 1970. A systems language written for Unix on the PDP-11.
Derived from BCPL, and very similar to it except for syntax. B was the
predecessor of C. Used as the systems language on Honeywell's GCOS-3.
"The Programming Language B", S.C. Johnson & B.W. Kernighan, CS TR 8, Bell
Labs (Jan 1973).

2. L. Meertens & S. Pemberton. Simple interactive programming language,
the predecessor of ABC[1]. "Draft Proposal for the B Language", Lambert
Meertens, CWI, Amsterdam, 1981.
ftp://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/languages/B.tar.Z

Why dont ppl use Batch any more, well apart from me, Asm and Batch are the most fun languages to program in
(-:

Plus when you actually write something in either you feel a great dael of acumplishment.

HTML is so easy that my grandma could do it .


i would argue. HTML is realy hard language. also it is not programming lang. its markup lang. but its still as hard as all others. actionscript is programming lang to. and its as good as lots of basics

<troll>
``I was taught assembler in my second year of school; kind of like construction work with toothpick for a tool. But when I reached my senior year, I through my code away; and learned the way to program that I still prefer today...''
</troll>

Sorry, I couldn't resist.