Well, the topic title lies a bit.. I was gonna ask you about open source/free software and the future of programming as a profession.

It's logical that, as Linux will gain more users with time, free/open source software will make the corporate lollipopers need to lower their prices and maybe finally make their stuff free. Now, we got the best software for free already today, but when all, or almost all software will be for free, being a programmer will be much different from today.

Will a programmer be able to make a living on programming? And how? I'd like to hear your visions, ideas and estimations! [addsig]

I don't see free software for linux making commercial software for other operating systems free anytime in the near future. I don't think you could really make a living writing free software, unless you were really good at it.

I see the best way to make a living off of computers is to teach programming to other people who think they can make money from programming.

heh, you could live from donations like rms =) lol

well, there are companies who think they have a buisness mdoel for free software. Well, it seems to work for the distros. Redhat broke even not long ago, rh is actually _making profit_ by now.

There are other buisness models, for example the 'eazel model' (lol)

you make a lot of noise about your product, say it's the next best thing after sliced bread, and get some really rich investors pumping up money.
Then you use that money as well as you can for 2 or 3 years, till bankrupticy.

What you have done in these 2 or 3 years with all that money will hopefully be so good the community will profit from it.

greta, huh?

and yeah, you can of course charge people for free software. That's what rms did with emacs in the first place. He sold emacs floppies, but people who had the internet could get it free of charge, copy it and redistribute it.

...hm, is that all? Well, if it would be a situation where programmers can't make money on programming, not many people would like to pay for others teaching them.. Especially if tutorials will still be free.

Red Hat makes money from selling there distrobution, I have never downloaded one for free, because I am on 56k. They don't just charge for the cost of the cdroms, they charge for other stuff when selling it too.

yeah, that's a buisness modela lot of free software companies seem to be pursuing.

M$ doesn't sell you a program. It sells you the license to do NOTHING except install a program ONCE on ONE computer.

Distros don't sell a program, either. They sell you support, a manual and nice CDs FOR a program.

Yeah, but can developers get payed from those incomes? Come on, I am trying to start an interesting discussion here .

well, it works for redhat. it did not work for eazel. But that's mainly becasue their services were available for free like everywhere else on the net and they were just plain useless.

I think to write free software (and not just open source) and be a good programmer you have to code for yourself and your project's development and *not* money. You have to find a part of yourself in the thing you are writing and not just a f***in heap of money.
Sure it's hard to live w/o money for your programs if you don't do anything beside this. But for me this the only way.

Just my 0.02$
Have a nice time!
Bandi

Ok... what work do you suggest then? I feel the same but somehow you've got to make a living. The way fsvara says is of course an option...

[ This Message was edited by: Peter on 2001-07-20 11:38 ]

I see no solution.

Opensource shareware!, jk

I've read some philosophy on http://www.gnu.org and I really agree... I do see some cool alternatives. And anyhow, I'm a fan of free software now (I need to know more about Open Source first before comparing though).

I think that the free software market will grow MUCH in the next few years , maybe it will also get higher that the "closed" market ... let's see
[addsig]

Which "market"? ;)

It's simply an easier development with free software and open source software. That makes the software more bug-free.

Bandi

I like the idea of open source. =)

So much so, in fact, that I'm having a bit of hard time thinking of working at a company that doesn't open-source its products. Yes, this is probably a very silly idea - companies have to make money after all! - but still, there might be a way.

I'll be graduating in a year, so I better start looking for companies that fit that rather stringent criterion. <wry grin>

Research and development sounds really interesting - some major opensource projects are backed by companies, but support can be fickle. Looking at what happened to MySQL, Eazel, and other companies that are having a fair bit of difficulty with the open source model right now, I'm a little hesitant.

Still, I'm a geek at heart. I'd rather earn very little, yet see my programs being widely used. I'd love to work with programmers around the world on ultracool projects. The whole open source community thing is just perfect for that, and I'll get to work with more and better people than I might have if I stay in a traditional company.

I've always wanted to teach anyway, and the academe seems particularly supportive of open source. Looks like a good option. R&D companies are my next best bet.

One difficulty I foresee, though, is the fact that I live in the Philippines - a country that's somewhat far from conventions and conferences where geeks congregate. Although the Internet does a lot to shrink distance, realtime, real-life collaboration over a whiteboard and some coffee still beats IRC or email for communication. Ah, well.

I have much to learn before I can actively contribute to major projects, but hey - everyone starts somewhere. =)

Well, working for a company is not the only option. As you said, you could also teach programming. I guess one could make a good living of teaching at a university and writing books. Also the unoversities are very important for the osdn. Most programs are probably written by students.
fabs

A representative from Microsoft participated in our panel on IT careers, and I'm starting to think it's not all that bad. I'd love to work with other geeks, and from what I hear the culture they've developed there is absolutely fantastic.

I wonder if they'll be okay with the fact that I know, work with and love things like PHP, Java, and Linux..

Anyone ever see the movie Antitrust (I think that is the name)? I like when the guy (forget his name) works for the big MS-like company and it shows the office where all the programmers work, I would love to work in a place like that.

Well, how their inside culture is, that is one thing. But what they do and what they represent as a corporation is a completely different thing. I'm sure most of the Microsoft employees are nice people (geeky ) but that doesn't change what M$ is in my eyes.

Jrgrant: I've downloaded half of it (the second half), hehe.... gonna check for the first part.

Antitrust was cool. <laugh> Great to see a movie use ps instead of some weird graphical thingy (and claim it was Unix, too! Jurassic Park was waaaay unreal).

Yeah, Microsoft has a nice internal culture, but they're a little too heavyhanded, and I don't agree with their ideology.. <g>

So where can people like us go?

Where can people like us go?

People like us can start our own company. Open source, free, and still get paid for what we do by accepting donations. There are people who simply love the Open source world and support it in any way. You wont make millions accepting donations but you can make money to pay your developers. People like us dont force other people to donate, we simply tell them we accept donations. I have found that donations are sometimes better then getting paid on a weekly basis. Donations make you feel like people are benefitting from your software. Where as getting paid by your boss doesnt do that remotely. Just my 2 cents.

johny-5