KaGez: those news are really interesting, but they don't belong among the ypn news, really. and if we do publish this news item, we might ask ourselves why we don't publish a lot of stuff that would also be interesting to those in the community. we're not slashdot..

just as a note: from what I've read, Microsoft does this because they are forced to. and these are really tiny steps towards openness, and they probably won't ever lead there - you've probably read about the Palladium/Longhorn plans.

Yeah, Palladium is definitely something we should let as many people as possible know. I talked about it to many people, most of them windows users, and nobody liked that plan. We have to mobilize some people against such plans... [addsig]

Peter:
ok, what do _you_ think what belong in our news section thingy then? "YPN updated their code again!". Woooohoo, what a news! happends every 1000 years! I think we should also inform our users what's happening outside of the YPN. We're no professional news site, no, and we probably don't want to get one. But still, I think it will have a great impact if we post "important" news on the front page, especially what is happening in the software scene and OS scene.
And, with the next sasquatch release this will also make sence, since you can discuss the news. If you can discuss the news, but the news is something like "New image for messageboard link".... that the heck do you wanna discuss there? :/
And, more news will also brin the users back to the page and let them actually look at the news and discuss it.
[addsig]

I think its a good idea to add news, any news, keeps something interestin on the front page, but, adding a link so we can read the full story or anything else thats important linked to that bit of news would be good too.

ok, currently adding a link to the news is a pain in the a**. It will be easier in the new news system, so I will post more links in the news when we've got the new php engine up
[addsig]

ok.

Well, I get the idea, but I still think it's not satisfactory to just add some interesting news from time to time.. I mean, Slashdot probably has some very interesting thing about these issues at least every other day. If not everyday.

Maybe we should specialize on news concerning _young_ programmers in particular?

Btw, Mox got me totally wrong there - I was jut noting that _if_ we are posting this kind of general progging/tech news, we could be having a whole lot of news every day.. which we can't do.

I do agree though, that we need to inform our members. But I do not believe in doing this through the news, instead we should write articles about it. I've discussed this with fabs a while ago.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter on 2002-09-01 00:54 ]

ok, if we use this news system only to inform our users about updates of the YPN and that stuff, we could delete it right off.
imho all news regarding lately discussed topics (browsers, OSs, compilers, desktop environments etc.) deserve a news on our page too, just to let the users know what is happening. It will make the YPN a convenient place for many users, because they don't have to get a newsletter here and there, just to collect some news.
And, even _young_ programmers share different interests of news, so I think it'd be cool to have a broad selection of news generes to post.
As said before, if we inform users about this on the msg board, we could simply trash our new news engine. in the new news engine you will have the ability to discuss news as well, so i think it's cool to post computer relevant news.
[addsig]

Okay, it's really a good idea altogether, but I have an important question - who will gather the relevant news? I can't oblige myself to do this regularly, I just wouldn't have the time (as I don't read a lot of news at all). If there are people willing to do this, either idividually or in a team, it's really great.

However, we should decide on some guidelines for deciding what is a relevant news item.

ok, let's discuss this in the chan and post the summary here afterwards.
[addsig]

ok, here's a small summary of the discussion between peter and me regarding this topic:
- at least 1 person will organize the news (at the moments this person seems to be me, other people are welcome to help )
- no personal opinions in the news, since this will most probably lead into flamewars, since the news are commentable.
- The general aim of the YPN should always be represented in the news. That is, don't dislike companies (like M$), but dislike closed source. Not in a radical way. Try to keep it calm and cool. Always "stick" to OpenSource.

That's a short summary for now.
About the news genres:
Peter and I agreed that we wanted to talk about this with moxx and fabs together, so there are still no guidelines for this.
[addsig]

Ok, if we are doing these more general news thingy, we made the next step to a stronger political positioning of the ypn. That's a very good thing in my op.

We'll need topics like GNU, Linux, OpenSource in general and stuff. We should also have topics with more politcal content like eg new laws.

The best way to find out which topics we need is probably to just create a new topic whenever it is needed. So we'll have a nice collection of topics some weeks after the start.

There's quite a lot of work involved in having such a news section. Considering the fact that we'll probably never be able to (and most probably not even intending to) compete with services like /. we will have to concentrate on long-term impact news. [addsig]

first thing:
I don't want to compete with /. at all. It's just that there are young people watching at our page, and that we can easily (more or less) convince them to use OpenSource etc., since they are still "learning". We should _not_ abuse this tho. We could even scandisk them up if we post the politically wrong stuff. So we should choose topics (those moxx mentioned I like quite much) which are hard to get wrong, and things which are politically correct. We should for example post no marketing graphs or shit about closed source producs, because (at least I think) young programmers still don't really need to care about market statistics etc.
As said before, we should discuss this throughly in the channel when we're all together.
[addsig]

shouldnt we provide the information, show them the good and bad points of open source, and let them choose, if you just show them the good points, they will try it, find bad points and think it lollipops cause they didnt know about these, them they will take a whole lot more convincin to get them to try again, we shouldnt try shape minds on anythin but havin an open mind.

hm... also a good point we should take into the news
[addsig]

hmm...okay. The good thing is, that we won't have too much bad points of OpenSource to report of [addsig]

Well, the news should be fairly objective, it's not supposed to tell what's "good" or "bad" with stuff. If sacah means what's bad about the open source ideology in practice, well that's not really a news issue. We should write some articles about such issues and put them out somewhere. With out names under it, of course, as it's a subjective judgement.

Heh, I don't think that anybody of us would post anonymously. [addsig]

I would post my name, even if I'd say something that will make everybody hell mad. I stand for what I do
[addsig]

I think the news should be straight, no sides taken, but I was respondin to Kagez's message about convincing young ppl to use opensource, I dont think you should be convincing them on anything apart from havin an open mind, but my last message was not phrased very well.

I got what you meant, yes.
It was meant to be something like that, and not to force them to use OpenSource or something. my bad, sorry
[addsig]

Actually I don't see why pushing OpenSource contradicts being open-minded...For me OpenSource is about very positive things like global cooperation, freedom (of choice), voluntary efforts and help and of course having fun with the community.
From my point of view there's nothing wrong with introducing people to OpenSource.

Also, we are hosted by the FSF, which we should honor

But, seriously, we should of course keep our news articles free of political opinions. If we feel the urge to tell people of what we think we can still post comments or articles marked as personal opinions. [addsig]

Quote:
On 2002-09-04 00:39, MoX wrote:
Actually I don't see why pushing OpenSource contradicts being open-minded...


prolly depends on how hard you push... you know, like, the french revolution, the 68's generation ("wer zweimal mit der selben pennt gehört schon zum establishment") etc... all great ideas of freedom and stuff, but people jsut got fanatic and stupid about it

Yeah, that's how it always goes, once that a critical mass of people gets involved in something. But that does not make the initial ideas bad in any way. It's just that people tend to make up their own understanding of something rather than really understanding it.

But, anyway, I think that the french revolution and the 68s had many positive effects. [addsig]

very true, i was just sayin it should just be news, no personal opinions. Thats all. Young ppl read this, so they are easily influenced, we should only influence them to have an open mind, not that linux is the best, windows lollipops and cant do anything, I have seen many young kids trin to be cool who talk about windows lollipopin, and linux rockin even though they have never used linux, its just cause its what they heard someone else say, and its goin against a big corperation like microsoft.

Just report news, not what you feel, or we could all submit our minds and have a ton of arguments, which i dont think is a bad thing, keeps activity, and ppl will come back more if they want to see what responses others posted, plus we get other ideas, we will make up our minds later, but if its post your own opinion, it must be limited to opensource, no mention of closed source.

Agreed. We'll have enough personal opinion in the comments. And we can also write whole articles if we feel urged to.

Hmm, if I think about it, why not brainwash all these kids so that we can take over the world once they all have important positions in society? [addsig]

brainwashing = good

[addsig]

Mox: I know you wouldn't post anonymously, but the news should still be a fairly neutral thing.

They should at least be politically neutral
[addsig]

yeah, I agree. What I said. We have other options to share our thoughts with the world. [addsig]

personal things we have to share with the world should be made official in articles on the mb
[addsig]