since everybody except you who posted after my post in that "Smoking" thingie agreed that it was a hell silly post, I deleted it. You don't need to flame others just because you think that you are always right. It is your opinion, and everybody in here has his/her own opinion, which can't be expressed with that simple Yes/No stuff you made up there.
And, another thing is, that we have minors in here (not only one or 2 if you mind), and such a post will make quite some curious if it really is stupid. I don't want to disclose that they will not try it... And I mean it.
Another thing is, that, as I said before, everybody has his or her own opinion about this. You have seen how it ended up in the channel. It ended up in a fight between you and me, maybe some others too. I don't think that that is neccessary, and I neither think that that is something OPs should do. OPs should be some kind of "model" for the others. I don't wanna argue with you, or anything like that. I just want you to stop this smoking story. We've discussed it throughly in the channel, and it ended up in complete chaos. That's exactly what we OPs should prevent.
So, I wanna appoligize to you for deleting that post, and for everything i said to you in the channel. Sorry. But I hope you understand what I mean, too.
[addsig]

That question was really simple, unless you need to put up a wall of excuses to hide behind. It wasn't a stupid post at all, it would be really interesting to know what young programmers think about smoking. Cancelling a voting just because you can't win isn't nice.

I'm ok if you think like that, but, as I told you in the chan some mins after posting the above, I'm not hiding. Why should I?
I simply don't wanna get in trouble. You see, one of them starts smoking because he/she is curious if it really is that lame. And I think if the parents find out that they've started because of a thread in the YPN, we're pretty much doomed. I don't wanna talk to those parents.... And, you can't say that nobody will try it. That's the main reason why I deleted it.
But, if you think I'm hiding, it's what you think, I don't have a problem with that. But I have a problem with talking about smoking with minors, childrens etc. It _is_ a drug, and we will be made responsible for it if somebody sees it.
I just don't wanna ride the YPN into problems, because I think it's a great place to learn, and because I know how much effort is behind the YPN.
ok, initially it was me who poasted that pic. I already appologized. If you don't accpet it, I can't help you. I did a mistake, and I hope that you see that you've done one as well.
[addsig]

hey, why did you do that while i was away, i love drug-related flamewars!
what was it about..?

We knew you were soon to return and deleted it quickly. We could have guaranteed for nothing if you would have found the thread... [addsig]

You don't even want me to mention smoking is bad, when people are talking about how good weed and acid is on IRC? Are you kidding? People try to convince me smoking is good (or at least acceptable) all the time, and I certainly won't start smoking because of that. If you listen more to some lamer on IRC than to every sane person there is, you almost deserve a painful death.

To svara: Hooray for flame wars? This one should never had started.

Robert talks about something he simply doesn't know _at all_! Or did you smoke before? If not, I think it would be better to just shut up.... I mean, I don't wanna say "smoke, now!" or something like that, no. I just don't like it when people talk about something they actually don't know. You've only heard how smokin is, or did you actually smoke? (ok, only 1 ciggaret doesn't count I mean smoke for a while.) You can't judge things you've never done. That's why I don't say the taking drugs sux. Maybe it's bad for your health, but you know, O2 is also _heck_ poisonous for our body. That's why we get older, and look somewhat wierd after 80 years. If you don't believe me, I've got a article in a magzine called "PM" (german one) which deals with this I think. Anyways, you are also addicted to a Drug, which is called O2. Everybody is, and we can't live without this poison... so, where's the problem then?
Robert: as I've told you thousand times before already, it is _your_ opinion that you think that smoking sux. If you can't accept that not all people think like you, you don't even deserve to discuss with somebody!
End. period. end of story. fullstop.
[addsig]

Well, you do not have to commit suicide to decide that you'd rather live.

Also, smoking is something that does not only harm you but also the people next to you. Some people here might have been to night clubs. When you leave you smell like you were grilled above a giant heap of cigarettes.

I think I don't have to mention smoking parents and the not-so-healthy effect on thier children.

You can think of similar things concerning alcohol and almost every other drug as well. [addsig]

its like girlfriend(robert) and boyfriend(kagez) have broken up...
(-;
chill mates, I would have to say, dont dis something you dont know about first person, and I also dont like how robert left irc when we started to disagree with him, then posts here on bbs.
But, ultamitly, I dont think we should be trin to provok arguments here, we know most of our active YPN members will jump at any chance they get to argue. I think it was stupid of robert to post this, knowin it would cause a stir, and if he didnt, know for future, its not wise.

/me is hypocritical, but, meh
d-:

/me jumps at the chance [addsig]

hey, I wanna make 1 thing straight in here:
I only smoke when no non-smokers are around me. I'm paying _very_ much attention on that.
[addsig]

"Oxhygien is dangerous", what the scandisk is that?
I don't know if you're trolling, or if you're just plain dumb, either way is bad.

You also say I don't know what I'm talking about, that is bullshit. When my family was visiting a friend to my mother in Nevada, I was told a story about one of their 7 cats. The fattest cat, Beauford (or however they spell it), was very active 10 years and many kilograms ago. Where they used to live back then, there was a glass door. Beauford once tried to run out with the door closed, and bounced back. He didn't give up, but tried to run through the door again. And again. And again.

Do you see what I mean? My grandfather died in cancer about 11 years ago. He smoked alot.
I don't want to run against the same wall as he did. Don't you have any understanding for that?

heh, stupid cat

as a child /me ran against a closed glass door once... [addsig]

Heh, I had somehow missed this argument.. I smoked for a couple of months once. And I can tell you, it's nothing I'd do again.

I believe that discussing an issue as this on an open forum is like talking about it anywhere else - however, since the YPN has a majority of minors, we can't have just about any discussion. This is mainly because everybody isn't going to say "smoking is bad for you, don't do it". Just look at the drug discussions we've had in channel, they are totally pointless, as the pro-drug people will stay pro-drug, and the anti-drug people will stay anti-drug. And those who don't have an opinion yet might just jump onto either flight.

I have a right to a personal opinion. Everybody else has too. The basic principle is that you must have rights, as long as they don't violate other people's rights, or deny them their rights. As a non-smoker, I am quite intimidated of smokers in public places, the best example would be this festival I was to this summer - on each and every show, I had to inhale lots of smoke, both from normal cigarettes and marijuana, maybe also some crack or whatever the people were tripping on (illegally, of course).

I have a lot of arguments against smoking, but starting this argument is pointless, as we should know where it's going to end anyway. As people, we might discuss these things, but as admins of the YPN, we should try to avoid such controversial subjects, and try to moderate such discussions on the board too.

For the last time, I did NOT start a discussion about if smoking is good and bad, that's asking for a flamewar that will never end. What I did was to ask how many of the YPN members who smoked, when KaGez started to fight. I didn't want any fight, if he just had either ignored the thread, or given the answers to the two questions, this whole thread would never have been created. A poll about how many people in the YPN who are smoking doesn't tempt anyone to try smoking, KaGez' speech defending smoking might do.

Please, stop this now.

/Robert

wb Peter, very well said, after reading robs posts, I think I musta mis uderstood what he was saying, and when he started a post as soon as he left irc, I just assumed he was still arguing from IRC, just trin to get a different method.
Sorry rob mate.
Thats one thing YPN needs to stop also, is arguing over stupid, noone wins personal opinion stuff, and the admins need to take a diplomatic roll, and set an example.

If kagez a big fat cat?
Or did I miss something?

sacah: Congratulations to 2^9-1 posts.

No, KaGez isn't a big, fat cat. I also think those "personal opinion, nobody wins" fights are pointless, but like I said, you can't _forbid_ them. As long as it's just for fun, and there are no personal attacks, they should be allowed.

/tEh sUpaH~~ r0b3rT!@$#!

Only prob is personal opinion is named because its personal, when somethings personal, ppl get defensive, its not longer out of fun anymore.
We just need to stop things gettin to rought.

ok, I said that I made a mistake with that pic, and I also appologized for it. However, just because I did that mistake, it's no reason for you (robert) to follow it, and start a "smoking is bad or not" thread.
Peter pointed out something pretty good, which I also tried to point out before:
most of the YPN's members are minors. Minors (or youg people) are easily affectable through such discussions. I don't want to disclose anybody in the YPN, because it highly depends on the topic.
[addsig]

well, i dunno but aggressive discussions have always been a part of the itnernet.. just look at any messageboard, or usenet. there are bound to be different opinions, and there's no better place than online to discuss them, as you can leave personal matters aside... sometimes irl you say something, and you really feel how somebody else disagrees with it, but he just doens't say anything because he doesn't want to start a conversation that mgiht turn agressive...

isn't a part of our "OP mission" to avoid just that? I think these days it gets more and more important to conversate over the net, and the people in here should learn it too.
[addsig]

sweet, i got a BLUE-> YPN-Hacker <-BLUE
Awesome, is that after the 500 mark or something?
Wow, >500 posts, nice.
Sorry, i cant mem the last post, so, I disagree with it, and am off to start a thread disin it
(-:
Law and Ordermust be kept, unless its an anarchy. <- Which YPN might be, that explains a lot.

no 500+ posts thing, no, you _are_ a YPN-Hacker, or not?
[addsig]

Fsvara: Well, yes, online you can discuss stuff a lot more freely. But the YPN isn't a free forum to talk about just about anything in any fashion you like - we're about programming, and the off topic section shouldn't be so controversial either. People should feel free to discuss anything they like in general places online, but YPN isn't such a general kind of place. Discussions surely leading to atrocities, such as drug discussions, just make things harder for our community, I feel.

Quote:
On 2002-08-23 01:03, Peter wrote:
But the YPN isn't a free forum to talk about just about anything in any fashion you like - we're about programming,


s/isn't/shouldn't be
s/we're/we should be

ypn is more than just some programming forum, and less than just some programmign forum at the same time.. i mean, look at the forums, the channels.. how mayn members actually do something constructive, programming-wise...
actually i believe "forum for young computer addicts" would suit us too, or maybe even "forum for socially challenged freaks" or whatever...

mh, don't take the negative statements here tooo serious, it's not as extreme as i put it, but still, you get what i mean...

Yes, but keeping it like that isn't or goal, or is it? I hate the idea of YPN trsnforming into a general geek nest.. yikes..

I think svara's 2nd description absolutely isn't what we are (supposed to be). All in here call theirselves "young", so we are still a community consisting of young peoples, all of them are programmers afaik. We may talk about non-programming things much, but I personally don't talk much about what I'm programming right now, anywhere...
I think we _are_ the YPN, as the name says.
[addsig]

of course, of course, but where'd all the fun go with no aggressive discussions, offensive opinions and broken hearts? (:

go to flashdaddee or cprogramming if you'd like to have that
[addsig]

Or better yet: Yahoo chat?

ooooo, also a great place for opportunities to starts flamewars
[addsig]

I'd say mailing-list flamewars are the greatest. At least most fun (annoying). [addsig]

I'd say mailing-list flamewars are the greatest. At least most fun (annoying). [addsig]

I never did such, but I think that's not much fun, since they will ban you pretty soon
[addsig]

Heh, neither did I do such. I save my flamewar potential for the Linux vs Windows flames on this mb [addsig]

bah! traitor!!
but, I don't like flamewars too much either
[addsig]