Yes, I know that everybody knows this
But, it has been proven again!
Since today (02.01. 2001) my GF also is a user of Linux (Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (aka Woody)), and she said that Linux looks better (heh, huge shock for Windows, the looks is the best ), is faster, and she said that it's also easier to use (ha! windows isn't easy! ).
Btw, she chose GNOME to run on her system, and guess what she told me when she saw KDE (2.2.1) ? "What the hell is this slow thing"? She used KDE for about 10mins, then we whiped it off again, because it kept crashing (what was that wallpaper again? sorry, insider joke), and japanese didn't work at all. It took about the double of time to load than GNOME (466MHz Celeron, 64MB RAM, ATA66 5600RPM), and after running KDE 2 mins (when we started Konq) Dcop crashed misteriously, and scandisked up it's own config files. After re-installing KDE we managed it to work for 10 mins, and then it's life was over again. No, I didn't make any "traps" or anything
Maybe someday Linux will really replace Windows, hopefully soon!
[addsig]

Power to the almighty GNU and his number one son, the Penguin!

btw, everybody says that Debian is sooooooo difficult .... bullshit... Maybe there are no graphical utils for setting up everything, but you can also use linuxconf and such ncurses interfaces.... try to upgrade Galeon in RH7.1! HELL!!!
[addsig]

mandrake8 is cool too! [addsig]

KaGez: I agree that it's a hell installing Galeon in RH... I screwed up Mozilla trying to do that .

mandrake 8? kinda old software you use 8.2 is the newest mdk atm.
btw, she also managed to surf the web with lynk (or links) after using Linux 1 week :/ I wonder how she did that, cuz I didn't tell her _anything_ about those 2 browsers :/
[addsig]

: raises fist : Windows forever! : ducks flying/flaming objects :


Hah, I don't hae anything against linux...I rather like it. But as of now there's a greater market for writing programs in windows.

You guys should try BeOS...
_________________
-Ken



[ This Message was edited by: -KEN- on 2002-01-05 16:34 ]

beos sure is pretty nice.. but Be is dead, and the OS' future is more than unclear...

yeah, I know


And I doubt palm will continue developing it...and I don't think they've released it's source to the various groups who requested it, did they?

I'm pretty sure palm just wanted it to integrated into a palm pilot...Oh well. [addsig]

-KEN-:
I'm not programming to get money, I only want some audience, and I think that I will get much more developer audience if I program on/for Linux. I don't wan't to take money from ppls for something I've coded because I was just up to it or something. I just do it because it's fun!
[addsig]

I don't believe in platform dependant code
I think at core all applications should be written ansi-compliant. Once a lib is compiled, GUIs can be written for various platforms which use the lib. The core should be portable though and I am not talking about some #ifndef portability
fabs

Heh, I'm torn between the two. I mean, on the one hadn I definately want to join a company and do this for a living. I have to think about getting money for it sometime down the line, and I love coding windwos anyway, so I see no problem there :shrugs:.

I like the idea of open source. I actually plan on getting my OS to be open source once I get around to it.

And fabs, please write me some code that will create a window, register it with the OS, and draw a circle to the client area that will run on all flavors Linux, all version of windows (maybe not 3.11 ) and BeOS....
:waiting...:
thought so. Sure, all code should conform to ANSI standards, but sometimes you have to use an API that's specific to the OS you're coding for, voiding any possibility of making it completely cross-platform.

Sure, programming's fun, but I happen to want to make a living on it...if I make some killer app I'm not going to make it completely open source...possibly bits and pieces...and if I ever do give the source to the whole thing away it will most likely be AFTER it's sold lots of copies...like they've done with the QuakeI/II source's. [addsig]

Here is a nice little snippet for ya. The circle even oscillates . Oh yeah, it should compile, without much hassle, in FreeBSD, MacOS, Irix, and Solaris as well.


Code:
#include "SDL.h"
#include <math.h>

// from docs
void putpixel16(SDL_Surface *surface, int x, int y, Uint32 pixel)
{
Uint8 *p = (Uint8 *)surface->pixels + y * surface->pitch + x * 2;

*(Uint16 *)p = pixel;

}

int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {
SDL_Init(SDL_INIT_VIDEO);
SDL_Surface* screen = SDL_SetVideoMode(640, 480, 16, SDL_SWSURFACE |SDL_DOUBLEBUF);

double osc=0;
while (SDL_GetTicks() < 5000) {
SDL_LockSurface(screen);
osc+=.05;
double radius = 50 * sin(osc);
for (double angle=0; angle < 2*3.14159265; angle+=.01f) {
putpixel16(screen,
(int) (320 + (double) radius*cos(angle)),
(int) (240 + (double) radius*sin(angle)),
(int) ~0); // make a white pixel
}

SDL_UnlockSurface(screen);

SDL_UpdateRect(screen, 0 , 0 , 0 , 0);
SDL_Flip(screen);
SDL_FillRect(screen, 0, 0); // black out screen
}

return 0;
}

Heh, Opera double spaced that .

-KEN-: you should re-read what fabs said about GUIS btw

Ken: Oh, Qt makes it possible Anyway, I wasn't really talking about toolkits like that, I'm just saying the most important about a program is the basic-logics behind it. The things that calculate and these can easialy be written in ansi C/C++. Compile them into a statical library and then you can write platform dependant interfaces BUT the main code is seperate from the actual library which is in ansi. That makes it easy to port your program to just about any platform.

SilentStrike: Thanks there, lol

fabs

ok, sure I also want to work as a programmer (or simmilar) in the futur, but everything I write in private - be it a super mega popular game or just a crappy proggy - will be OpenSource. If I write something for a company and they say they don't want to release the source, ok, that's not my problem. But I was talking about my oen stuff, the things I own. And, I also think, that code shouldn't be platform independent. That's why I chose to use OpenGL, and _not_ DirecX... ok, DirectX is also much slower, but my point was portability. When I write a code in OpenGL with GLut/GLu I can upload it somewhere and anyone - no matter if he/she/it uses Windows/BeOS/Linux/MacOS or whatever - can compile it without modifications. That's what sux about WinAPI (ok, X11lib too, but with X11lib it's not that bad) is that it only works on 1 single platform. That is, Windows. If you program with WinAPI, only developers on windows can actually make use of the source, and I think more than 50% of the developers these days run Linux. Just look at the currently (or lately) developed games.... Duke4ever, Wolfenstein, both were developed in Linux and ported to Windows. Maybe that's the reason why so many Windows apps (even freeware) are closed source. Either the code sux badly/contains viruses/trojans (don't say there are no such apps, just look at Q3 or RP7), or the other reason may be that nobody would be able to start anything with windows source.... who knows...
Anyways, for my private I'll stick to OpenSource, no matter what I program
[addsig]

Free software, not open source (for me at least)

to be honest, the reason why I use linus is not that eays. On one hand I like the OpenSource model, but on the other hand it's something personal.
I normaly dislike stuff everybody uses/likes, same on the PC. Many ppls use windows, and I hate such hypes, and "you have to use/do it because everybody does" things. But on the other hand again, I need something to be able to work with smoothly, so I chose Linux. but other reasons for that I chose linux are stability, speed, and the good security (right fsvara? ). there are almost no viruses for linux (maybe 3 or 4), and they won't harm me as long as I don't run em as root
anyways, that's why I chose linux
[addsig]

Well, I must be one of the few people today that chose Linux 'cause they liked unix.

But I continue to use it for the open-source model... I blame the scotsman in my blood.

Oh yeah, the speed, stability and all that shit too

hehe
btw, about that M$ stuffI posted before (lying about WinXP on embedded and stuff)... RedHat finaly replied on that thingy on ZDnet. I'll post the link in here, then you'll (everybody) see how much M$ likes it to be an illegal company!
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2833255,00.html
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2833256,00.html

Have fun reading 'bout it!
[addsig]

I've decided I hate you all for showing me up...!! :p (except in that example you gave me, ss, there was a nonstandard header...so...?)

Fine, fine...Open source windows programs from me to y'all from now on!

Which could get quite interesting seeing as now I'm gonna start work on a program that writes the skeleton GUI of your program for you (Making a really decent GUI is hard work...!!). So you can drag, drop, and click your way to create new, non-ugly GUIs! Woohoo! I think I'll just start small, though...button positioning or something.


I actually would like to run linux, but it would actually turn out to be a pain, I think...erhm...actually I may go upstairs and reinstall it...but I'd like to use it over the internet (I want to be a network security specialist...sooo much fun!!) and I've only got a winmodem on that stupid laptop. I have an external one somewhere, I just need to buy a cord for it...and I don't know if the disk has drivers for linux :rolleyes: Oh well.

I think I may grab a few things off my laptop, and install SuSE linux over windows...might be fun... [addsig]

Nonstandard yes.. portable, yes.

I also have windows installed, but only use it rarely. The only things I use it for is some code portability testing, and maybe to play some games (doesn't happen to often these days tho :/ ). Anyways, I think it's good to have 2 or more OSs on a PC, so you can test your code for portability, and I like portable code
[addsig]

I only have Linux installed, and DOS/Minix on my 486 laptop (with no network). Windows isn't needed.

I decided windows was too important to delete...so I revived an old SuSE partition I never got around to deleting, created a bootdisk, and fixed it up real nice... That should prove sufficient for now. [addsig]

it's always better to have 2 or more OSs on a PC
[addsig]

It is? I'd find it good if everyone used the same system (not Windows, no). Then compatiblilty problem wouldn't exist. If all PC hardware followed the standards, everything would get easier too...

I'm dreaming.

What if you didn't need drivers? what if the hardware followed certain standards? *dreaming too*

or at least, if hardware autodetection was as easy as doing detect_soundcard(); and the soundcard would tell you its exact specifications?..*dreaming, too*

I think such things won't be a good idea. OK, M$ for example didn't get a very good image for forcing new data formats etc., but they've advanced the computer technologies for sure with that! You know that I don't like M$. I don't want to protect them or something like that
Same with hardware. If there wasn't rivality between all these companies out there, where would we be today? for example the head-on-head fight of Intel and AMD. If AMD didn't exist, we would be still stuck under the 1GHz line today I think. They seriously try to beat their opponent, and the product of that is a new CPU, with amazing clock speed.
So, they stick to the needed compatibilities, but without breaking them you can't reach new things. And, software should be made for hardware, and not the other way round
[addsig]