i think we need an java messagebord because it´s the populars programm language next to c++.You can use java for web sites and programms i hope you think so too. [addsig]

no, we don't. well, maybe two or three people would like to see one, but we have enough, not to say too many, boards already. the windows board, the ai board for example are useless... If anybody actually comes up with a question about java, then we might maybe create such a board. but just because some people hgave heard about soemthign doesn't mean we need a board about it.

I've got a idea about this mess anyways tho.... I was thinking of this for a long time up to now, but I think we should create a board called "OSs" and put _all_ OS stuff in there. The UNIX section and the Windows section that is... then we'll have 1 board less.
I know, svara will now go kill me again
[addsig]

Java is on the list of IT failures, its Virtual Machines run slow, there arent statndards between OS's, and its a very different complex language, rather large for web devel, and the need of a Virtual Machine for Local apps. Personally I am slowly learning Java, its not bad, and I am sure Sun will continue to work on it, it can only get better
Well I hope.

Persoanlly I will suggest what I suggested for the Windows board, have a poll, asking Should we have a Java board, Yes/No,
1. Will give us a new poll
2. Will give a community happy result.

I hate Java. It's so hard and slow, as already mentioned. Server side scripting rules!! Note that I did not say ASP rules and PHP doesn't. They're both cool/ [addsig]

Java is hard??? What do you mean by that?

Harder than VB, maybe? [addsig]

well, considering java is an island, i agree that it is probably quite hard. I am not sure about the exact average soil configuration of java, especially as the isle is probably of volcanic origin.
SCNR
oh, we were talking about ajva the programming langauge? go figure.. talking about a programming langauge here.. of all places... but whatever, how do you think is java any harder than other langauges dxprog? i concur with moxx: "harder than VB?"

Just about anything is easier than VB. It's not so much that Java's hard, it's just I've never gotten it to work right. Java just seems so useless with SSS and DHTML. About the only thing I've seen that's good about it is it can make pretty good games. Of course there's Shockwave for that too. [addsig]

Hmm...true, but I never came across any real good shockwave game so far. And I don'T like that shockwave and flash stuff very much.

I prefer well programmed JavaScript and Server Side scripting like PHP. Almost everything can be done without Java or shockwave and it always appears more - well - neat! [addsig]

You hit the nail on the head. [addsig]

it looks neat, but the question is:
does anybody want to have that neat look? I personally prefer pages with plain HTML/JS much more than stuff with Java or SW/Flash.
[addsig]

Quote:
On 2002-06-18 05:33, MoX wrote:
I prefer well programmed JavaScript and Server Side scripting like PHP. Almost everything can be done without Java or shockwave and it always appears more - well - neat!


kagez - that's what he was saying

I love JavaScript. I have been really delving into it lately and it's a blast. [addsig]

Yep, JavaScript is fun. Used it two years or so ago and it was very crappy to do something useful with JS. Tried it again a week ago and I must really say it's great! Well, it's not the nonplusultra, but it makes some nice and sweet things possible. [addsig]

but I think now it will get the nonplusultra! Now the w3c established standards for it, and most browsers already stick to that (most....)
[addsig]

I love flash, mabye thats just cause im a GFX person.

And Java is sweet. Though I must say, I try to stay away from JS. YUK

Flash is pretty good. I've been doing a little bit lately. [addsig]

yes make a poll about the java bord.Flash is really good but to expensive [addsig]

GFX lollipops. ascii-only pages are what rules. [addsig]

Oh barf. [addsig]

moxx is right, again. well, except for site sthat use images to actually show something of course

[ This Message was edited by: fsvara on 2002-06-20 22:46 ]

ASCII pictures can be cool, but a whole site with nothing but text would be awful. [addsig]

www.gnu.org ... somewhat minimalistic but it fulfill sits purpose... what's the prob with that...

RMS is just somebody who doesn't look at design too much
[addsig]

is rms the gnu websmaster?

dunno, but I think he's the one who created it first. And, I think he only collects ppls sharing the same interest
If you want somebody who looks hell much on design, go talk to Iacaza (GNOME and Gnumeric founder)

Quote:RMS is just somebody who doesn't look at design too much

RMS is cooler than you will ever be.
[addsig]

did I ever doubt that? if so, quote _that please!
[addsig]

Whatever the definition of cool is, I doubt that it is the perfect word to describe a phenomenon like RMS... [addsig]

i actually find him quite hot...

fsvara: You mean - sexually?

_________________
--moxx

[ This Message was edited by: MoX on 2002-06-24 02:27 ]

no, generally

About the Java language being bad because of the Java VM I think that isn't as big of an issue as you think. Most apps come with large install files that install components that are necessary for the program to run. The Java VM could be considered one of them. Most large applications don't just have one executable. Also Java is now working on things such as cell phones where the Java VM is already installed. With that in mind it would make it easy to develop software for multiple operating systems. And at the very least.. it is still better than VB [addsig]

Personally I love java, but I also love VB
(-:
Java VM is a downfall for a few reasons, its rather large, and its a little slow on lower end machines, cause it needs to be inturprited. And VM on other OS's were made by different people, thus there were some small indifferences between them.

Microsofts new OS in 2004 is said to not include Java support, So I will kinda hate M$ for that. But there will always be a VM around.

Those above problems are small ones I can live with to use this awesome language.
(-:

Quote:

Microsofts new OS in 2004 is said to not include Java support,



My new PC, probably bought 2003 is said to not include Microsoft at all. [addsig]

The Java VM may be slow, but for the ease of porting I think it isn't such a bad thing. I program in C++ and currently making a program I must port to OS X from windows. This is becoming increasingly hard due to problems that are constantly arising. I personally would rather sacrifice some speed then a ton of time and effort. With two programmers Java can quite helpful. You can do servlets for your website (which is easy because the user doesnt need Java VM) and applets. (which I don't personally care for) Lastly the amount of code C++ requires to make rather large programs is substantially more than Java. Java over all saves time and money and is quite productive.
As for windows not including Java in its later OSs I don't see a problem. With Java Programs you could easily just make platform dependant install files that include an optional install of the Java VM. This will ensure the user has the Java VM to run your application and creating platform dependant installs is nothing compared to creating platform dependant programs.

_________________
Huh? Stop confusing me.

[ This Message was edited by: AntiHalcyon on 2002-06-25 05:29 ]

thats very true, Java rocks, what I was saying was MS 2004 will not include Java, but there will be a Java VM just like you need for 9x, so it will be pretty much the same for distribution wise.
(-:

WHere are you getting all this info about Windows 2004? [addsig]

From his secret source at Microft didn't you know? Sacah has connections into most major corporations throughout the world.. He's a lot more powerful than you'd think!

/me pulls his finger out of his nose and tried to look intelligent.

Yes java Rocks,but one is shit on my Windows isn´t java.exe include.So i thing Microsoft hate sun and java. [addsig]

I'm sided with them. JavaScript is better. You don't have to wait forever for classes to load. [addsig]

OK doxprog but can you make an MenuBar or Treeview with JavaScript? NO! [addsig]

javascript --> java?
for some things yes, but else.. not quite...

Okay you can't do that, but why would you need a tree view? You can make menus in JS though, and graphical ones at that. [addsig]

JavaScript is NOTHING compared to Java. Java is quickly becoming the language of choice (for many people) and is highly talked about. It is platform independant and can make applications, servlets, and applets. JavaScript is an ok scripting language strictly for websites. How anyone could see JavaScript as being better than Java is just beyond me. [addsig]

Heh...I can't see how you can say Java was better.

I can't see how anybody can compare JavaScript with Java, at all! Every document about JavaScript starts with some lines like: "JavaScript and Java are two totally different things!"

And they are! Try to control my browser behaviour with Java. You can't do so? At least not faster and easier than with JavaScript? So, isn't JavaScript better?

Never compare Java and JavaScript, please, for the sake of rationality. [addsig]

I say Java is dying, at least for web development. When it comes to the web, Java stinks.

_________________
If VB is fun, what's everything else?

[ This Message was edited by: dxprog on 2002-06-28 02:43 ]

I reckon Java is just getting started.

We will see.

Quote:
On 2002-06-28 02:42, dxprog wrote:
I say Java is dying, at least for web development. When it comes to the web, Java stinks.


i guess java is dying just as much as BSD is...

C# is about to die if you ask me.... Java is starting to get used more and more.
And, I also think that you shouldn't compare Java with JavaScript. It's like comparing ASM with PHP or something like that. You can't just compare it. You use these 2 candidates for 2 totally different things!
[addsig]

Okay, to me it seems like it's dying. I'm not that in tune with the rest of the programming world. Guess I should be.

_________________
If VB is fun, what's everything else?

[ This Message was edited by: dxprog on 2002-06-30 23:35 ]

what speaks agan´s java.You can use it for the internet and you can make great´s apps with it so why we couldn´t have an java bord? [addsig]

Why not simply stick with conventional HTML/PHP forums?

And no, Java is not dying nor C#. C# is put forward by Microsoft (you all know it's a big player in that kind of game) and will slowly take over C++ for Windows development.

Java is put forward by Sun, which is also a big player. But Java has found his niche in several spot of the computing world. The fact that there are few Java apps on desktops doesn't mean it's dying. Many big Unix entreprise servers runs Java application servers and the people you see on the streets talking in their cellphones are probably unknownwingly using a Java chip

No really, we will keep on seing C# and Java and they won't die anytime soon.

_________________
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GIT/GO d+(-) s a-- C++ UL? P L+(++) E--- W N+ o-- K- w++ O--- M? V? PS PE Y+
PGP- t+ 5(+) X-- R tv+ b+ DI+++(++++) D+(++) G-- !e h-- r++ y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

[ This Message was edited by: Neu[Mann] on 2002-10-10 23:20 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Neu[Mann] on 2002-10-10 23:23 ]

Java for applets is dying. In fact, I don't think it was ever really born. I think java is more a good hobbyist/learning language.

Quote:
On 2002-10-11 02:52, C_Rdd wrote:
Java for applets is dying. In fact, I don't think it was ever really born. I think java is more a good hobbyist/learning language.


Applets were invented to make web pages more interactive when you couldn't do much with HTML. It was ok at the time but now that DHTML/ECMAScript have become widely supported, it's rather pointless... Flash got alot better too.

Java on the client side is dying but unless Java in general completly die, it will never completly disappear.

well, now we have FLASH!!!
[addsig]

board not bord

KaGeZ: hehe, I guess your comment about C# above was meant to wake me up! Too bad I was not around when you posted that. C# is a better language than Java, no apologies to anyone. It couldn't be less since it was partiallyt based on java. it has nothing to do with who wrote it.

Besides, there is this notorious tendency for programs running on a Microsoft virtual maching to run faster than programs running on Sun's VMs. Never mind thos programs they must be flawed!!!

sorry sacah my teacher [addsig]

java is better than c/c++ becouse you can use an programm that is comp. in linux eg. in windows.(i knew that allready)
what is bad on java why we can´t get an java board [addsig]

a java board would probably make me leave ypn

nah seriously stuff that can be done so simply in server side programming languages... why the scandisk would we want to do that in a language that not everyone's browser supports, makes it impossible to use with non-graphical browser...
and java appletzt are still the no 1 reason my browser crashes....

a java board would be a disaster

disaster?we wouls talk about java what´s a disaster?We mustn´t show us applets! [addsig]

i can said the same to an c++ board:
OH my god what a disaster ActiveX [addsig]

c++.... board... huh?

and yes, using activex would be adisaster too.. there's just no reason we'd downgrade ypn...

let's do it the other way:
we don't simply refuse it because Java sux (we could throw our the BASIC stuff too then), but because we don't know if anybody is interested in Java at all. We won't create a board for 1 or 2 ppl, since that'd be no real help for anybody. So, anybody interested in a Java board, please "sign" here
[addsig]

I´m interested [addsig]

Don't put on a Java board. It's a waste of time and bandwidth and it will never look remotely as good as this messageboard, which is actually pretty ugly... In order to be compatible (and it's no guarantee), the Java 'bord' would have to use AWT, which is a ugliest toolkit ever! (Even TWM in Linux is more functionnal)

People using Windows XP don't have Java and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most people here.

So lock this topic now We are wasting space on RMS servers

I'm sided with him [addsig]

so, no interested ppl except henning?
[addsig]

i don´t thing so [addsig]

shit on windows more than 70% cent of people on the ypn have linux and no windows xp.In the next windos versions would be an java2 SDK include the why we wouldn´t get an java-board becouse some peopel have windows xp(that was micrsofts target) [addsig]

I want java

Personally I would want a board for every language, but i see many ppl dont want that, I would say the same things i said about the windows board, but noone listened to me anyway.

I _highly_ doubt that M$ will include a Java SDK into windows, _highly_.
Anyways, if we would create a java board, you would sit in there, lonely as hell, asking a php system questions which nobody reads/answers. Is that the point of a forum? :/
[addsig]

aaahhhh!

now i got it! haha... well my comments probably sounded sorta extreme... but thats because i thought henning wnated us to replace phpbb with a board /written/ in java. lol

hahahah.......... [addsig]

I thought that too, but I'm still sided against it. [addsig]

Microsoft and Sun had a big argument, and Microsoft said in our next version of Windows we will not even support java, you will have to make a VM and let ppl dl it.
Next version will be one after XP.

But, since windows is no developer platform anyways, who cares?
[addsig]

so we can do something aganis that whan we build an java-board we can make more tut´s about java and i don´t thing that only 2ppl. program in java. [addsig]

KaGez: I think it matters to average users who wants to use Java too.. not only developers. Microsoft's taking another step towards total monopoly . (for those who think I exaggerate: read the longhorn/palladium thread somewhere in the windows or general computing forum)

you´re right peter microsoft starts to win you see it,the metter couse some peopel dosen´t went an java-board is that windows xp doesn´t include java that was microsofts target no body wont more java. [addsig]

why not have a
Web Devel
Linux Programming
Windows Programming

There, 3 forums, that cover ~everything for programming.

We could even have an OS programming. with the space we saved from listin every language.

The boards would be more active, as less places for ppl to post, and any questions could be asked there.

How about that.
(-:

Write java tuts and example codes then, if they get enough ratings/interest we can consider a java forum.
[addsig]

sacah: One problem with that. Java doesn't specifically fall into any of those categories. It's not strictly web, Windows isn't supporting it anymore, and I have no idea about Linux. [addsig]

_MICROSOFT_ is not supporting Java on his platform. Sun still support the Windows platform as well as Linux. And there are few Free virtual machines supported by the community.

I also thought Henning wanted a messageboard written in Java. I'm sorry if I've been rude but I'm still against the idea. That would only dilute the posts between all the forums. There is already too much. Java can be included in a "web programming" because it's a very useful language in distributed systems development, which kinda fall in the web/internet domain.

HE WANTS A BOARD WRITTEN IN JAVA?!?
Then, without any discussions: NO!
Java is too slow, I don't know enough Java to code such a thing, and it's big/bloated and insecure.
[addsig]

I messageboard written in java is crazy a don´t would try it [addsig]

okey guys a would write some java tut´s you can test them and maybe than you are for an java-board [addsig]

look, there is no need for a board about java.

think about it:
are there any java-related questions somewhere on the board already? no.
so what would we put in a java-forum? nothing.
so what do we need a java forum for? uhm... yeah..

BRAVO!!! [addsig]

in reply to java being not on windows, not linux, not web based only, thats why OS independant is there.

As there are a few languages like this.

Edit:
Sorry, OS independant is not on the list, my mistake, 4 would be
Windows
Linux
Web
Os Independant

That covers ~all, and we wont be continually arguing over a new board every time a new programming language starts bein used by a YPN member.

[ This Message was edited by: sacah on 2002-10-16 17:10 ]

maybe later will came new ypn member to the message board and maybe they program in java so whan we had an java-board the would be came new ypn member that are intersing in the ypn couse there is an java-board but i think now there´re still not enought java-coder [addsig]

fsvara:
if he or some others write some tuts and they get enough interest, why not?
[addsig]

yes, but he hasnt done that yet

wait,i worked an an java-tut [addsig]

we'll wait
we have all time in this world to wait for tuts
[addsig]

and i have long holidays and an new linux-PC I think on monday i´m finished okey [addsig]

ok, I'll look out for some cool java tuts
[addsig]

I have finished my java tut look for it and vote [addsig]

I'll take a deeper look at it when I know how to get java stuff compiled on my sys.
[addsig]

I mostly like java for its swing, though its a bit different to master.

You do need to work on your english though.

is still an month ago were i finished my starts with java tut.2 ppl. rate for it and everybody say i should work on my english,i will correct it.But please you all went to see an java tut they you can still say somethink. [addsig]

Henning, you talk like Pitr from Userfriendly.org...

You mean this guy? http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/pitr/ [addsig]

heh, who else could he mean?

pitr is great though:

UF: What's your favourite coffee blend?
PD: Dark Crude with heavy water. You are understandink? "If geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is just not thick."

*ROFL*

hey say somethink about the java board please!In the ypn msgboard are some boards where only in one month somebody post somethink [addsig]

I think the solution would be to REMOVE those useless board.

Keep it that way:
General programming
Web programming
Linux
Misc

that's enough.

_if_ we'd do that, we should leave the C/C++ board too, since it's quite popular.
[addsig]

Hmm, I think leavin the C/C++ board in that case would kinda contradict [Neu]Mann's idea.

I suppose we either make several forums for several languages (really, why does everybody complain about having so many forums?) or we just make a few general forums like [Neu]Mann supposed. [addsig]

I like Java because it's one language to learn that can be used for many things, including:

Web programming (Applets)
Applications (Swing & AWT)
Server-side scripting (Servlets & JSP)
Mobile Applications (Palm, cellphones, etc.)

Java is NOT dying, even though Micro$oft is trying to kill it.

[ This Message was edited by: Crawler on 2003-03-14 02:14 ]