I think there is enough contents for a Forth section on the page. Could someone please create that? Since there are about one member(s) who code in Forth, I don't see any point in creating a Forth forum, any Forth related topics could be in the Other Languages forum.

What the heck do we have for forth on this page? And, how many member know/do forth?
List me both, and after that I think it'll be easier to decide if we need that section or not...
[addsig]

mh, i think robert simply wants a section for his code to move from the "other" section into forth.. which is quite understandable.. as there are quite some forth things in other by robert...

but afaik it's only robert who submitted stuff to the forth section....
I mean, I can understand it too, but we had the exactly same situation before. I wanted a API section, because I've written much in C using APIs.
It got denied because "I was the only one" who wanted that section. If robert is the only person, we shouldn't create that section either. Else we should also create a API section
nah, but I think there should be at least 3-4 or more persons interested in a section until we create it.
And, it has to be of use for other peoples too. Not everything is useful for others too, just because it is for 3 people
[addsig]

I think having a forth section is fine, it will help tidy up the Other lang section, plus web robots will link us for forth more oftern too.

We use a bit of forth for bootstraps at work. Might learn some soon.
(-:

mh, kagez, wasn't the reason that simply, if you write something using an api in c, you submit to the c section... the bindings for different langauges might have differences so i think it makes a lot of sense to keep them in the language sections

it was just a example.
I mean, we have exactly 5 documents (even only programs afaik) written in/for forth. We can't create a whole section for that.
What do we have the "others" section for if we create a section for everything else?
A AI section is the same. you could write it in any language, but still he have one. imho we have way too many useless and dead sections already (/me looks @ assembler, other languages, ai, windows)
This is another thing I wanna do when we put up the new engine. A clean, still post free forum. We can leave the old focum data on the server, and link to it from somewhere. I will not convert those damned 10+MB of posts data to the new database format, no! If you wanna have you old data in the new forum, we will do a huge cleanup, and then convert it. Somebody of you will have to convert it tho.


_________________
I can't go to heaven and I was banned from hell, so I'm stuck HERE!

KaGez

[ This Message was edited by: KaGez on 2002-08-26 23:29 ]

KaGez: Now you're confusing sections with forums.

I agree though, five forth submissions simply don't make up to a section.. I've been asked for a Java section for a long time, and honestly, that would for instance be much more useful; a lot of our members do Java.

I think we should simply make a new section dependant on the posted documents, their quality, their number. If there is interest in that topic, why not create a forum? If not, there´s absolutely no reason even to argue about it. We should simply make up a limit. Let´s say, if all documents of that topic have a rating sum of say 100, a section is created. Just an idea. [addsig]

Why not just create a new section, if 2 or more submissions for a certian language, liiks tidier, and easier to find and web robots see, and kagez, isnt a postless forum useless - 'A clean, still post free forum'

d-:

getting back to what kagez said... post free forum? whyy? *cries*

that'd make our site look.. dead! and it's so much nice stuff.. in this forum...

Yeah, fsvara, I strongly agree!

But I also have to agree with KaGez, because converting all the stuff from here to our new (and hopefully much better) mboard will be some work. But, as I started the work on the new mb and as I want to make the new one similar structured it might be less work than expected. We'll see. [addsig]

I am certain that we will have to do _some_ conversions to the current database for the forum. And, with 11k posts, that will take a lot of time, even on high-end systems.
Anyways, fsvara:
We should start off with a clean, empty forum, BUT we could create a link to our old forum for those who are interested in the old posts.
Just a idea.
As i sayd before, if we convert the whole forum database, we will first do some cleanup and delete all really useless and braindead posts, those which don't lead anywhere. They will just take up space, and I think it's a good opportunity to do it.
[addsig]

The problem is, that sorting out all these "useless" posts will take a lot more time than simply converting them all.

I don't really want to prove-read 11k posts. [addsig]

sorry, I was talking about threads
anyways, if we keep all current posts, we are _forced_ to keep all current section (almost forced...). And I don't want that, not for any price. Lemme tell you how I would like it more:
- General YPN
- Coding Contests
- Projects

- C/C++ (including all APIs and techniques)
- BASIC/VB
- Assembly
- Interpreted languages (PHP, Perl, Bash etc.)
- OSs (_all_ OSs)
- General Computing
- Off topic discussions
- YPN Internal (private)

The current forum names are confusing, and we have too many imho. We should use names which you understand without reading the description. That's the point of names, or not?
But, to realize this, we can't use the current DB, unless we do everything manually. I don't want a polished php-engine, with a usability of the forum like this

damnit, PHPbb _fucked_ again. I'll upload a list later.
_________________
I can't go to heaven and I was banned from hell, so I'm stuck HERE!

KaGez

[ This Message was edited by: KaGez on 2002-09-03 19:02 ]

i haven't seen anybody besides you complain about the usability of our forum.. i really don't find it that bad.. actually not at all...

you know why nobody cares?
because the usability of the whole page of the YPN is like this. Deadends here and there, hard to understand things here and there... so why should anybody complain if everything is like that? I personally wouldn't report a usability issue if everything is at the same level. It either meanse that it is meant to be a bad usability, or that nobody doesn't care about it anyways.
[addsig]

We created the assembly forum for my code, why not create a Forth forum for my code? KaGez, the "Other" section is for mixed languages, not only Forth, which takes most of it now.

because we don't need your code only. We need interests from everybody, and not from 1 person.
[addsig]

Now I'm getting really annoyed. If there is enough contents for a section, why not just add it? People might find it interesting later, we added the assembly section for me, but now several people use it.

ok, we've added this AI section, now it's DEAD. We added that windows section, it's DEAD. Other Languages =--> DEAD, Assembler =--> DEAD
We should create section where we know that the interest _is_ there.
[addsig]

Ok, um...
I think we are not talking about the forums, we are talking about YPN, the section at the side. So forth code and be organised.

Thats what Im talking about, I know its not what Kagez is talking about, who ever started this thread, please explain what you are talking about
(-;

robert is talking about a section to submit documents, I know, but that still doesn't change the fact that there has to be interest in first place.
I mean, if we create a section for forth now, we could create a APIs section, a PHP section etc. In both, the APIs section and the PHP section we have _way_ more interests that in forth.
No interest, no section. period.
[addsig]

But we have tuts and code for forth, they should go in a section, makes it nice and tidy, unless its to hard to make a section, else i think there should be a section for anythings thats got more than say 2 tuts/code about it.

ok, we have tons of code usefull for gamedev too. But noo, we didn't create that section before.
Let's be fair. I didn't get my section, even if there _was_ enough material and interest before, and now robert shows up out of nowhere (usually quite inactive on the board) and tells us to create a new section. Isn't that great?
I love this behaiviour.... "gimme my stuff, and then leave me alone"...
This may sound rude, but I'm getting sick of this "Let's create this and that section" and then in the end it is bloody dead.
no matter how angry robert is, I don't care. I only say 1 thing:
if we create a forth section, we wil create a gamedev section too. Isn't that a deal? you've got your stuff and you are happy, I've got my stuff and I am happy. I think it's a fair deal
[addsig]

I reckon we should create as many sections as we had code for, who cares if they die, at least it will help gen interest, and make things more organised.

ok, then let's create these 2 forums when our new engine is there. I don't wanna produce even _more_ data we have to convert later.
When the new engine is there, we will have a forth section, and also a game section.
[addsig]

We've agreed on a rationalization of sections - trough subsections. So there's no need for whining about new sections anymore, really .

don't ask questions about how it works, it works, and it will also work later!
anyways, it should keep the sections way clearer than before.
[addsig]

Were not goin to transfer the msgboard data over are we?

still unclear. Moxx and I will discuss it again. If we convert the data or not, the old data will still be available in some form. Maybe not in the new message board, maybe it will. I will give you further informations about this when moxx and I found a solution for this
[addsig]

A new messageboard without all the old flaming and trolling post is not a bad idea.

I would like to convert data - or at least save it for later generations ;P

Peter:
you are free to convert this whole mess of about 20 megabytes on your computer.
I would rather prefer to find a different method tho. Some kind of link or something.
[addsig]

bugger it, keep it as a backup, mabye find some usfule posts and use the information, but majority is crappy that could be shot to buggery and none would be the wiser.

If we keep posting we'll have 10k new posts within the next year. Hell, if you really want to read throught them, it will take weeks. I have no problem with keeping them in a "silent" messageboard for historical reasons. [addsig]

I think moxx's (sacah's) idea is good. We will starts off with a _clean_ new forum, and then simply link to a old message board. we should lock that message board, so that nobody can post on it, or simply remove the posting etc. functions. The nwe will still have our "history", but will be able to structure the data in a better way, using the experience we've gathered up to now.
We will still have to discuss _what_ sections we will create on the new board.
[addsig]

The problem is, that removing any topic will make somebody angry

Hmm, don't know, maybe we simply stick with the current topics? [addsig]

OK, we could for example merge the OS sections (windows, linux) to "OSes". Or, a better solution would be to create forum called "UNIX OSs" and anothe one called "Non-UNIX OSs". This would make things clearer, and, since not everybody uses linux or windows, people can even post questions about Qnx, *BSD etc.
Here's a list of forums I'd like to have:

General:
- General YPN
- Projects
- Contests

Programming Languages:
- C/C++
- Assembler
- Lisp Likes
- PHP
- Perl

Programing Related:
- APIs
- Gamedev
- AI

Web Development:
- Web Programming (Java, JS, CGI)
- Web Design

Computers:
- Unix OSs
- Non-Unix OSs
- General Computing

Others:
- Offtopic
- Private YPN OP Forum

That's what I think is best. It has all and more than we have now, and is cleaner structured imho. PHP is in the programing languages sections, because it can be used for everything perl can be used for. Tho, We could create a forum called "interpreted languages" instead of PHP and Perl.
[addsig]

Visual Basic?

ok, looks like PHPbb scandisked up the list I posted above, and inserted the current one, for whatever reason.
I've uploaded a file including the design to
http://gnapsterj.hypermart.net/tuts/forum_layout.txt

Please take a look at it
[addsig]

That list is exactly the same as the one you posted in the previous message, what about Visual Basic still?

I hate phpBB.... sometimes it shows this, sometimes that.... anyways, I wanted to make a update to that list:
Put PHP and Perl together, into a "Interpreted Languages" forum, and then add a news forum called "BASIC".
We shouldn't name it "Visual Basic", since there are many variants of Basic, and VB is just one of them.
[addsig]

what about less forums.. if we're gonna rework the forums layout, we should delete a lot of these forums. the list as kagez posted it looks like a lot of empty or almost empty forums.

what do you mean by "empty, or almost empty forums"?
[addsig]

it dont matter if they are empty of almost empty, at least its organised.
And forsore someone will goto every forum and post a First post!!!!! thread
(-;

Quote:
On 2002-09-04 15:51, KaGez wrote:
what do you mean by "empty, or almost empty forums"?


i mean that people won't have much to say about each of these topics, so the forums will stay pretty "low-traffic".
If we reorganize the Windows and Linux forums into one "OS" forum, I think we should try to reduce the overall number of forums, too. That would make the individual forums more lively.
Plus, a lot of people woul probably post to forums where their post doesn't belong.. we have it now already that people post language-specific questions into "General YPN". So, the forum names should be unambiguous, and it shouldn't be hard for anybody to choose the right forum.

so what kind of list would you like? :/
general ypn
programing
offtopic
private

something like this?
no, but honestly, try to give us a example list.
[addsig]

Heres my list:
'YPN leet forum where everything is posted cause that way it looks like our bbs is more livly, stuff organisation, its how livly it looks, plus u n00bs cant post in wrong forum if we only have one.'

Thats what I think our one and only fourm should be called.

Solve all our problems.

Having a General YPN
Programming
OS
Off Topic
would be fine

we're a programming community and we have 1 single programming forum, for all languages in 1? :/
I'd say we should _at least_ make it 2, compiled and interpreted languages.
[addsig]

I like havin a dif forum for every dif idea we can think of, more organis, but if we goin minimalistic, those are the 4 we have to have.

Thats all
(-:

I still like my ide best of all ideas that have been submitted up to now, since it's the most structured ones, and only the ones currently alive are included in there. Also, the 2 new ones requested are in there.
[addsig]

i agree with kagez that "two forums for interpreted/compiled langauges would be a good idea because there are so many langauges we'll undoubtedly get a lot of requests like "can you add a forum for language xyz"... so the programming-related forums should be divided by something other than langauge... although, seeing a C question next to a Pascal question or something like that won't make things easier either...
and there are other probs.. for example, vb. is that interpreted or compiled? like with a lot of langauge, you can have both...

I think we should at least have a forum for the 4 current mainstream languages, which are C/C++, Perl, PHP. We can then still add "Other compiled" and "other interpreted".
Anyways, another thing I would really have to like are the "Programming Techniques" forums, like APIs, gamedev etc., because I think there are a lot people who have API specific quiestions, which don't really fit into regular programming language forums, since most APIs can be used with many programming languages, in almost the same manner.
[addsig]

VB is extremly main stream.
More so than Perl, and even C++ in a lot of cases.
Many in the proffesional programming domain use it, it produces great results with minimal effort and time.

There are a few VB compilers that are free opensource too, nothin like MS's VB.

hmm... true ...
we should really think of something to keep the count low, but still make it easy to decide where to post....
[addsig]