A friend of mine contacted me with the idea of making a programming community called YCC, Young Coders Community. I have thought of doing this before, and I told him I would help him out. We have nothing but a skethcy design right now. I am not trying you rip of your ideas, fabs, fsvara, peter, this was not even my idea. Wish us luck, I will still be active in this community too. Hopefully (not trying to be mean) our site will develop quicker than this one. Later

Somehow I saw this coming. Someone would start another community that competes with YPN. I just thought it would be some asshole like Eric or PoLyKaRp who would do it.. I didn't think of it like this.

I will definitely not wish you luck with this project. How could I? It's like I'd wish you luck to stab me in the back.

well making comunity is not bad, but advertising it in other comunity is against 8th rule of god. or something.

I am sorry to see you feel this way, no one is stabbing you in the back. No one said anything about competing. It looks to me as if you think you invented the whole idea of a web community, did you? No, did you create the first programming web community? No, did you create the first young programmers community? No, you didn't. It was not even my idea, it was someones who did not know of the YPN at all.

He's not advertising yet..

About that "stab in the back": this is not MY community. It's OUR community, a community for all young programmers. It's not a selfish pet project of ours, it's something that we really envisioned like a thing that young programmers could do together.

I guess my reaction was a bit intensive, but I think that's understandable. It feels like you're saying "this community is not good enough, and it's not worth working on for me", so basically it lollipops.

What entitles you to create the community for young programmers? How did you get the right to do it, and not I? If you feel that by me helping develop another community means the YPN is not good enough, then maybe it isn't. The only thing usefull of the YPN is the forums and IRC channel.

Oh, there it is. So it does lollipop?

Nothing entitles me to create the Young Programmers Network. But we were basically first. I only know of two communities especially for young programmers, and that other one is way behind our development level.

Yeah, there may be competition, that's not necessarily a bad thing. What makes me upset is that it's a member of the YPN who will do it (doesn't matter that it wasn't your idea).

On IRC, you told me that YPN isn't developing. It's wrong. I've been away for a week, and now Fabs is on a school trip, but we're still trying our best.

The projects section's preliminary version will be up during this week. Sasquatch is going to be revised, we'll put it up as a public project.

Apparently, you don't find it worth contributing to YPN development. This tells me that you simply don't want to cooperate with others in this community. That is what turns me down, not the fact that there will be another community.

Have a nice day.

When did I say I did not wish to cooperate? I believe it is you, and the developers of sasquatch that are slowing everything down. How long has this site been up? And what do you have to show for it? How does one help develop this system? It is not my fault you do not know what the scandisk you are doing. I am tired of putting up with your little kid bullshit. If you want to whine because someone is going to make something potentialy better than yours, you can kiss my ass.

hey! cool down guys.
Peter: don't worry, be happy. See, he thinks it's THAT easy but you know yourself how hard it is to actually put together a community. Keep in mind that he'll have to go through all that we have been through before he can even judge the YPN.
Mintegra: If you think it is necessary to have another young programmers web-community, make one. And you know, good luck, you're gonna need it.
fabs

hm, fabs, aren't you supposed to be away already?

well apparently there are more than you think

I think you kinda overreacted a bit, peter...let the guy do whatever he wants.

_________________
-Ken

[ This Message was edited by: -KEN- on 2002-04-22 06:22 ]

But it was MY idea first! Muuuuuuuummmmmmm!

Bring it on!! If you can think you can beat the YPN, go on! I doubt you will ever do!
good luck tho
[addsig]

You guys are ... young!

Don't you know that there are communities that actually work together? Especially when they are not-for-profit communities, like YPN? Why don't you think of this issue that way?

There has been a bit of talk about startin a new community, what is this one missin in your mind, and mabye we can all fix it, we should be workin together to make this community the best, not runing off to make a new community.
Unless you wanted to be gtboYCC then thats just an ego thing.

The whole world can't just live as one big country, because we are all different; that's my point.

One yp's idea of a young programers' community may be different from another yp's idea.

The point is simple: can we live together with our differences, without killing each other? Can we work together even where we have points of differences? Can't we allow each man to do his own thing and work together in the areas on which we agree?

I don't think it was an ego thing, I'm sorry for creating that impression

Sorry for the wrong impression created.

The world is a big place, we can't all live in one giant country because of our differences. The same applies to this issue

Um, no, they are very different things(the world and a community like YPN that is), a community can be for everyone, but I dont mind if you start a new one, I just see it as far wiser, from a work load point of view to utilize this community already started, got quite a few regular members, and a decent web site, code base etc.

Tell us what your views differ from ours, what you think should be changed, even if you are still goin to leave, mabye we can fix these things, a community works together to make each other feel welcome and build stronger, everybody in a community has their differences, you dont see ppl running off to start their own town just cause they have a few dif ideas from the current community, without first lettin this community know what they dislike and givin them a chance to change it.

Hope this makes sense.
(-:

Mintegra: If you and your friend are so dedicated to create a young programmers community, why don't you simply join and bomb us with your ideas. I'm sure ppl would be happy to hear some innovative stuff.

IMHO it is really a pity that this community has less than ten members who are obviously interested and dedicated in pushing in forward. Why don't you try to bring in your ideas rather than doing everything yourself? That's not really the purpose of a community, is it? [addsig]

sacah, MoX: that was exactly what I meant .

Mintegra: I obviously over-reacted and I will wish you good luck (because, as fabs said, you're going to need it). But I still see it as opposing community spirit to do things this way.

however, peace.. I'm not particularly worried about the future of YPN .

::waving hand frantically in the air::

Ooohh! Ooooh! Can we use our stength as a SuperPower ypc to bomb 3rd-world ypc's?!?!

[addsig]

Hmm, my friend is saying he knows of the YPN. I am not going to help him anymore, I was under the impression that he thought of it, that is the only reason I was going to help him.

To all of you people who say to share ideas and help the YPN, in what way is there to help YPN? If you call this an open source project, it is not a very good one. There are no immediate ways to help. I have suggested a semi-good idea that I think needs to be looked at. Assemble a team to work on YPN, then write a document on the engine, split it up into objects, then split the team into squads or something, and have them pick what object they could code. Isn't this how you are suppose to do object-oriented programming? Seems like it could get alot done.

BRAVO. Well said. Brilliant idea.

Welcome back lost soon

One thing that 'our' greatest project Sasq definitely lacks is documentation. I know that it sometimes lollipops to write it, but it id probably the only way to attract potential coders. It takes a lot of time (I know that 'cause I started to write a documentation on my own project mute) but it is well worth it and makes the project really open. [addsig]

Mintegra: true, there is no immediate way to help. But it shouldn't be very hard to get engaged - I haven't heard of any interest from you before.

Sasquatch is going to be put up as a project (the projects section is to be uploaded quite soon). Having a team is an old idea which we still will stick to.

Is YPN an opensource project? I never knew that, but a community is opensource.

Ok, sorry, forgot all the important stuff, Yes, I remember the Assemble a team thing, I think we need to work together on more things, we are kinda stagment, a few arguments about Windows vs Linux, mabye a HTML is a programmin language debate, but thats it, we need to get the community in, mabye start some community projects, where ppl can learn, so if they stuff somethin up it wont take down YPN

Mintegra:
we're working on getting our CVS up as soon as possible (the one on this server), and I think Peter's projects section will also greatly contribute to this point.
Anyways, maybe you could ask your friend what he is missing in here
[addsig]

You still did not comment on my object-oriented idea yet. I have suggested this before, so you can not say I never tried to engage in helping. Someone could write a Database object, and document it's interface, so other coders could use it, someone could write a User object, which controls logging in and such, document it's interface, then it will be really easy to add all sorts of functionality to Sasquatch.

Working on Sasq is surely a very direct way to work for this community, but we should probably start other YPN projects,too, because I think that a lot YPs in this community are not that interested in WebDevelopment. [addsig]

Mox: Yeah, of course =).

Mintegra: Yeah, I think that's the idea. We will write the core and then modules - "objects" - may be inserted. I'll try finishing a preliminary version of the projects section tomorrow.

What is the structure of Sasquatch now? I really think the base, with modules idea will work. A user could change his preference and turn off certain modules. For isntance if someone wrote a private message module, some people could use it, and some could choose not too. Every module could have a design document, describing what other modules it needs and how it's interface works.

From what I understand of .NET, if it was used or something, people could write modules in C or anything. Am I right? Of course there is no php.NET, is there?

..let's use .net for the ypn..

I was not suggesting using it, I was asking (sort of) if that is what .NET is for..

btw, the administration engine for sasq works with modules... the new sasq will too. the message board (codename "Yowie!") will also work on a module base.
[addsig]

So...why not release the code open now? Why not cvs the code and why don't you write documentation?

Prolly because you are not enough ppl to do it that fast. If you had released openly from the beginning, well, maybe now there would be more ppl... [addsig]

MoX: as we're rewriting the structure, releasing the old code would do more harm than use. There is a tarball of it somewhere on Fabs' server,tho.

Good OpenSource projects release their code every few hours...at least every day. [addsig]

Mox:
WA ARE WORKING FOR GETTING CVS WORKING ON THIS SERVER!
[addsig]

To have an opensource project requires a lot of work, codin is easy for most of us here, but writin documentation, for our code which we change when new problems are found, is extremly hard, most opensource projects have a few ppl who are like english majors, they write all the docs, and when you have more than 4 ppl, on dif timezones coordernating efforts is not easy, you ppl need to give gtboypn a break, but gtb need to get organised and start thinking of how you can help the YP's out there, with projects that are organised etc.

I too aint good at english, so I hope you understood this.

I understand you anytime, else we'd have major probs, maybe no in the YPN but in kagpro

anyways, to the main topic:
There is _much_ of organisation going on under the hood. There are things that pleoples should know, and things they shouldn't. For example the planning in the very beginning is nothing everybody should take part in. We've done it once, and we'll never do it again, since it got a whole mess. You can't just organize things with ppls that are always asking what this and that is. If you do something totally from scratch it is possible, yes. But if you do it with a community that already grew pretty much, I think it's near to impossible.
[addsig]

Only one thing: What does 'gtboypn' mean?

(Hope I did not declare myself dumb with that question) [addsig]

Don't worry mox, I have no clue either.... [addsig]

kpyro, He was the one who wanted to make another community. The one that I thought did not know of the YPN. We met at a qbasic forum site.

With the quite inventive name YCC - which is probably not related in any way with the name YPN ... [addsig]

gtboypn = Gods to be of YPN

Who invented that? [addsig]

I would not doubt it was me.

hehe, somtimes scah has really good ideas. But sometimes he also has seriously great ideas
[addsig]

Yeah, that'S what we all love him for [addsig]

I haven't seen any gods lately. Since KaGez got upgraded to hacker anyways. [addsig]

one of the gods should return today
[addsig]

Maybe I'll do a bunch of blank posts and get my status upgraded real quick. [addsig]

mental note: delete all useless posts from dxprog

that's a good idea! delete _all_ posts of dxporg!
j/k
[addsig]

<post by dxprog deleted. it was useless>



[ This Message was edited by: fsvara on 2002-04-28 04:32 ]

e=mc2 There that isn't useless.

hm... for a coder it is
[addsig]

Oookaayyy. How about: #include or for vb programmers label1.Caption = "This isn't as useless as the Theory of Relativity"